to finally be able to say there has been too much immigration

(507 Posts)
moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 08:29:59

Now that UKIP have made massive gains in local elections,conservatives stating that major changes need to be made and labour admit that they made a big mistake in having an almost open door policy can I finally say this in public without the hysterical accusations of being racist?

Corygal Fri 03-May-13 08:59:57

I think the govt should be ashamed of itself to allow a situation where people feel forced to vote racist. Even Labour took this one seriously - remember the Hodge report where Margaret Hodge warned Blair & Co that people in the East End were getting, er, frisky at perceived racial preference for services, and would turn racist out of shock at being denied their social rights.

WhoPaintedTheLion Fri 03-May-13 09:01:01

Give an idea enough air time and people will start to believe it.

Abra1d Fri 03-May-13 09:01:29

Of course there's been too much immigration--in some instances.

My father's life was recently saved by an Indian doctor. My son's health has been greatly helped by a second Indian doctor, who has been compassionate and kind. My mother's life is made far better than it would otherwise be as a result of the efficient and intelligent help of her Bulgarian cleaning lady/housekeeper. I am so grateful to these individuals. Clearly our country benefits hugely from people like them.

My mother was an immigrant. Worked for the NHS for 30 years. I like to think she was one worth having.

But--undoubtedly there are some immigrant groups who have contributed far less or nothing to British life overall. Non-English speaking brides who come into the country and never work, never involve themselves in British community life or learn to speak English, for whatever reason (I accept this may not be their choice).

I have no compunction at all in saying we should let in as many as we can of the first class and very few of the second. I am assuming we are talking about economic migrants here, not asylum seekers, which is a different topic really.

Economically and socially we don't need ghettoes of non-English speaking people who have no intention of integrating and this should be discouraged. We do need intelligent and/or hard-working and compassionate immigrants from wherever we can get them.

perplexedpirate Fri 03-May-13 09:01:36

Awesome cross post @ 8.55. smile

UKIP though. Fucking UKIP. sad

SinisterBuggyMonth Fri 03-May-13 09:04:23

The next town to mine, is one of the poshest places in the country, lots of famous/very rich people live there, and very comfortably off middle class in massive houses. You walk down the high street and its all white faces, apart from the family who runs the post office and the odd premier ship footballera. Not a place massively effected by immigration. They all voted UKIP last time. They must believe everything they read in the Daily Mail.

It is to do with immigration though. The area I live in needs more houses. I think something like 20% of the population are migrants. I know people are living longer too but without one or the other we wouldn't need more houses.

wonkylegs Fri 03-May-13 09:04:58

Councils giving permission to build on green belt isn't necessarily about overpopulation. Newcastle is considering allowing the greenbelt adjacent to the north (wealthy /attractive) part of the city to be built on whilst having empty properties and brownfield sites across the city. Why - due to pressures by housing companies that can build cheaper (much easier to build on a virgin plot than brownfield) and sell for more profit due to the associations of the adjacent suburb than they can in the currently available land. That has nothing to do with immigration just profit!

Abra1d Fri 03-May-13 09:06:57

Of course one of the reasons for the housing problem is immigration. NOt all of it--apparently the rise in single-person households is a major factor. Immigration contributes to 30% of the requirement for new homes, apparently. It is a factor. My personal view is that preserving the countryside is a moral obligation we owe to our children and grandchildren and that is an obligation we should take very seriously.

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:07:12

sinister rich people don't just live in their own bubble and have no idea of what's going on in the rest of the country. Just because you live in a very well off area doesn't mean you can't be concerned about what's happening in other areas.( and ultimately their own area)

Flisspaps Fri 03-May-13 09:08:08

What seeker said.

Abra1d Fri 03-May-13 09:09:17

Exactly, what about all those trendy Lefties in large houses who support policies that don't impact on them but mean that less well-off people in towns like Slough can't get their children into local schools or register with a local GP? Aren't they living in as much of a bubble? The Blair government allowed mass immigration that didn't affect any of the ministers. They all lived in naice areas where they wouldn't be worried about such things.

MumnGran Fri 03-May-13 09:09:22

This seems to have flipped into an argument about whether people have a racist or non-racist approach?
For me its actually about overcrowding of a small island. Don't give a ff about colour of skin or originating country, but do have a problem with very high levels of economic migration causing massive pressure on areas such as maternity services, et al.

UKIP? ..... I never discuss politics with friends {smile]

Abra1d Fri 03-May-13 09:11:18

You are exactly right, MumnGran. It's not to do with race--but race is a convenient way of derailing an argument. I was once told on MN I was racist for opposing house-building on an agricultural field outside a vilage.

Mumngran - totally agree with you. That's what I was trying to say.

OrbisNonSufficit Fri 03-May-13 09:13:15

As an immigrant myself (not from the EU), yes I do think you're being a bit unreasonable. It's VERY difficult to get a UK visa (not to mention very expensive). My visa restrictions prevent me from accessing any government assistance (benefits etc). I can't get a mortgage. Getting a bank account when we arrived was nigh on impossible. Some of my workmates in other visa categories even have to report to the police station every time they move house. So I'd hardly say the door is flung wide open to immigrants.

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:13:31

mumgran excellently put

soverylucky Fri 03-May-13 09:17:13

I thought that it was actually very, very difficult to get into this country if you are from a country outside of the EU (actually I know this for a fact as one of my best friends is married to someone who is from outside the EU) I also thought that we had an open door when it came to the EU - anyone can come here from the EU. Is that correct? can anyone infrorm me clearly?

roundtable Fri 03-May-13 09:19:01

I do hope if UKIP should by some miracle win an election that the queen will exercise her right not to make them government.

It's not just about the immigration issue with them, it's their views on people with special needs, maternity pay and more.

moogy1a Fri 03-May-13 09:21:53

yes we do have an open door within the EU.

Dawndonna Fri 03-May-13 09:22:38

interesting chart that shows increases and decreases under both governments Along with a drop in 2008/9/10 followed by a minor increase.

Dawndonna Fri 03-May-13 09:25:10

Yes, roundtable they'd like to lock my dcs away. That's what people 'forget' they are voting for.

StoicButStressed Fri 03-May-13 09:26:20

YANBU Moogy Although I suspect that the way your OP was worded may confuse some people into thinking you support UKIP, as opposed to (I think???) you referencing their rise in support rather as an indicator that many people DO believe immigration HAS been too high and 'unregulated'; I.E in sense of the EU automatic entry policy vs. Austrailia et al's 'points' based immigration policies?

Vis the odious Farage, I agree with Seeker: And just because Nigel Farrage actually looks like a politician and is good on Question Time doesn't mean that he's not a racist bigot who plays to the worst side of the British psyche. But would caveat that with the - alarming - fact that some of their supporters now are NOT 'the worst side of the British pyche', rather that they have seen no other 'politician' or mainstream party actually be prepared to openly and honestly simply tackle the issue head on. As it IS an issue and one you don't need to be a 'bigot' or a 'racist' to see as such.

We are a small island; we have a (albeit an NHS tettering on edge) Health system that is free at the point of delivery but clearly needs to be funded; we do not have enough social housing; we have a welfare system that is - whilst (IMHO) failing those in the worst of need - one of the most generous and instantly accessible in Europe (hence, statistically, the majority of EU immigrants choosing here rather than other EU countries where they would have the same instant rights to all of the above) but is now being slashed for those who are the most vulnerable as the welfare bill is now so huge (in straightforward economic terms).

I don't think stating any of that is racist in any way, or makes me a 'racist'. They are simple statements of fact. Yet unfortunately, it has been a debate most people and certainly political parties have avoided for fear of being branded 'racist'... which, beyond horribly & ironically, has then led to increased support of a party which IS fundamentally racist to it's core.

I think immigration has been: way too high; way too unregulated; and has caused huge issues in some communities where local services (e.g. Primary Schools) have been pushed to breaking point as well as the more macro economic issues.

I am concerned about all the issues above, but that does not make me 'racist'. I write as a second generation immigrant - my Father from Ireland and my Mumma from Africa.

flatpackhamster Fri 03-May-13 09:28:52

soverylucky

I thought that it was actually very, very difficult to get into this country if you are from a country outside of the EU (actually I know this for a fact as one of my best friends is married to someone who is from outside the EU)

Not that hard. Find a course in the UK that you want to study at a university or FE college, get a student visa, you're in and you can disappear. It's a popular route for illegal migrants. There have even been fake study courses created by fake colleges which are solely a channel for illegal migration.

I also thought that we had an open door when it came to the EU - anyone can come here from the EU. Is that correct? can anyone infrorm me clearly?

Exactly correct. Anyone from any EU member state can come and live and work and use the welfare system of any other member state.

CliftonGirl Fri 03-May-13 09:28:53

It is much easier to gain a UK citizenship if you are not from EU country.

StoicButStressed Fri 03-May-13 09:29:23

MumnGran Cross posted but agree with you entirely. It is the fact we cannot seem to have a reasoned debate about those very factual issues without the 'race card' then being lobbed in that does do ALL of us a huge disservice - and the delightful Mr Farrage the hugest of 'service'.

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