to think we should be really freaked out,by all the arrests for sexual abuse of children????

(144 Posts)
Isiolo Thu 02-May-13 15:34:07

Firstly, I am not a 'paedophile on every corner' type of person. But I am wondering if actually, I should be??

Its a bit old news now, but more and more high profile celebs are being arrested for paedophilia in the 60s and 70s.

SO many people got away with it...for so long...Isnt this a sign that it is very widespread? and that it is pretty institutionalised??

Are celebreties more likely to be paedophiles than the rest of the population????

There doesnt seem to be much freaking out or outrage going on...I feel like there should be more

phantomnamechanger Thu 02-May-13 16:19:17

Gross and repulsive as all these stories are, I also think celebs are more at risk than joe public of having false allegations made against them, by shunned fans and deluded obsessed people who fantasise. One of the hazards of the job if you like, same as for a teacher or scout leader.

I also think people are silly in thinking they "know" these celebs who have been beamed into our living roms for years on end - they are ALL putting on a persona. and the thing is, you just don't know who else, in the real world, is also putting on an act. They want you to like them, trust them, rely on them, put your guard down. They are very good at laughing off any accusation or questions, or playing the wounded falsely accused.

There is not a random stranger on every corner waiting to abduct your child, however, there are unsavoury characters all over the place in every walk of life who will do whatever they thinik they can get away with. We all know people like this whether we realise it or not, the ones who give us the creeps are easier to keep our kids away from, but the ones who seem genuinely lovely people are even more dangerous.

CashmereHoodlum Thu 02-May-13 16:19:31

I think ignorance about sexual abuse and where and how it usually takes place is still a big problem. It is noteworthy that Hall abused the daughters of his friends and acquaintances, so his access to these children and young people was not gained as a result of his celebrity status.

Booyhoo Thu 02-May-13 16:19:44

well that's sort of my point Isiolo. people are saying 'it's not paedohilia- there's a difference' well i'm asking how that difference is measured because if it's the onset of puberty then someone who might sexually abuse my young cousin at 8 who has started periods may get an entirely different trial and sentence from someone who might have abused my mum aged 15 and had not started periods. i just dont understand the "it's not peadohilia' argument if it's to do with puberty.

Tee2072 Thu 02-May-13 16:20:09

Here's an exact definition of paedophilia:

"As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children (generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13). An adolescent who is 16 years of age or older must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child before the attraction can be diagnosed as pedophilia."

- Wiki

meddie Thu 02-May-13 16:22:03

Going back to the OP point. I agree with you that there does seem to be a lot, but its because you are suddenly hearing about them all at once.
I am sure there are plenty of slebs who are crapping their pants at the moment for their past behaviours.

x2boys Thu 02-May-13 16:22:09

it would probably come under the mental capacity act reculver and as she does not have the capacity to consent then it should be rape any man pursuing a relationship with her is at best a predator.

Tee2072 Thu 02-May-13 16:23:59

Very true meddie.

And whatever you call it? It was disgusting, inappropriate and illegal behaviour.

EldritchCleavage Thu 02-May-13 16:26:25

The law has separate offences and more severe penalties where the child victim is under 13.

I think attraction to e.g. young teenagers is more accurately called ephebophilia.

Dahlen Thu 02-May-13 16:28:10

I think most people would shocked if they had any idea about the number of registered sex offenders in this country. It is shockingly high. There are a lot of not very nice people out there.

It's not that it is on the increase, it's just that it's become increasingly unacceptable in society. Fewer people are prepared to turn a blind eye for fear of rocking the boat. This is definitely a good thing, although it does have the unfortunate effect of making it appear it's on the increase - especially when historical crimes are factored in.

It's worth remembering that most abuse is perpetrated by people known to the victim - whether that victim is a five-year-old child or a 20-year-old woman. It's also worth remembering that most abuse is about power rather than sexual gratification (sex being the medium rather than the goal). Therefore, the best thing we can do to protect our children is arm them with a healthy self-esteem, knowledge about healthy relationships in general, the difference between authority and control, harmless and dangerous secrets, and provide a safe environment in which they can talk about anything that's bothering them.

slug Thu 02-May-13 16:28:17

A quick peruse of The Every Day Sexism Project seems to indicate girls as young as 11 are considered fair game to a large percentage of men.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Thu 02-May-13 16:33:02

Great post Dahlen

Isiolo Thu 02-May-13 16:34:12

I think all girls should learn a martial art. I dont mean lame self-defence classes. I mean learn how to break bones

treas Thu 02-May-13 16:34:22

Are celebreties more likely to be paedophiles than the rest of the population????

No - however, they are surrounded by yes men / women and are allowed or expect to be allowed to do whatever they want. How often have people heard the cry of 'don't you know who I am' from a so called Celebrity

Tailtwister Thu 02-May-13 16:35:47

I agree, it's very frightening OP. It seems that the exposure of JS has opened up an avalanche of other celebrities who were involved in such behaviour.

I think people's attitudes were very different in the 70's. I remember most adults I knew saying they were very suspicious of JS and I wasn't allowed to apply to his show because of that. Yet nobody did anything! There was a culture of celebrities attacking these girls in the TV studios and everyone turned a blind eye to it.

The sheer scale of the problem which is becoming apparent does shock me though.

Booyhoo Thu 02-May-13 16:39:44

isiolo i think that's quite ridiculous if you mean as a way of preventing sexual abuse of children.

if you mean in order to build confdence and self esteem then i agree, but i think ALL children would benefit from learning 'lame' self defence.

but if a 30/40/50 year old man has created a trust and dripped his poison in her ear about how what he's doing is special and 'love' etc then she wont even think of breaking his arm. and even if she tried, he's at least 3 times bigger than her weight wise.

AmandaPayneAteTooMuchChocolate Thu 02-May-13 16:41:31

Yes, it is scary. I think one thing to bear in mind is that, in the 70s, there wasn't much of a taboo at having sex with teenage girls if you were a powerful man. All those rock stars having sex with groupies, etc. Think of Bill Wyman and Mandy Smith. I think the age of consent was also seen as a bit of a 'technicality' and, if it was ok to have sex with a 16 year old, was it really that different to do so with a 15 year old, etc.

That is child abuse, but it's a sort of abuse that was really quite public. Without mentioning any band names, well into the 90s plenty of bands had young teenage girls hanging around at their gigs. Am an old gimmer these days, so don't know how much goes on now.

That has been mixed in with the kind of abuse committed by JS et al and they are all becoming public at once. I think society has changed in respect of paedophilia in terms of safeguarding formalities in settings like hospitals. Sadly the biggest risk to our children is still family members. But it has also reminded me just how young I will have to teach my girls about men who try to create pretend 'relationships' with them.

I don't know if it is 1% - I just plucked a figure out of thin air, so don't quote me as an authority!

Isiolo Thu 02-May-13 16:45:01

both booy...to physically protect themselves, and to improve esteem. Ive been raped once and sexually assualted twice. Ive done plenty of lame self-defence classes, which were of no use to me what so ever.

My dds do compulsory karate. As part of that, they learn the confidence to physically defend themselves. Which is what I lacked. I knew the techniques, I just couldnt hit someone.

It is true, that an attacker will be bigger and stronger, but that doesnt mean they cant be fought off. The female karate teacher that is in the class, has fought off would be attackers. She says the element of suprise, is a massive part in how successful it will be

finickypinickity Thu 02-May-13 16:46:21

Its 3 of them on charges from Corrie at the moment if you include the bloke who played Frank and was bumped off. That does seem an incredibly high cluster of men to be accused and i for one am really shocked. Maybe its because it over such a huge time span if you include Bill Roach.

The PIE thing absolutely horrified me when i read about it. How can any group of people want the age of consent abolished or changed to 4 years old. Who would that have benefitted, it wasnt the children.... Harriet Harmenangry

Isiolo Thu 02-May-13 16:46:34

I suppose I am thinking of when they are teenagers/women though...rather than children still; that said, my 7 year old has a very effective kick

Isiolo Thu 02-May-13 16:48:04

Tis true it was over a time span; and we are hearing about them now, so may appear more. But we are in a 'time span' now, so I imagine, whilst these cases are historical; the same number are occuring in this time span??

Booyhoo Thu 02-May-13 16:50:32

karate is a form of self defence though? (i thought when you said self defence you meant stuff like karate/ judo etc)

apologies if you mean something other than that. i've only ever done ju-jitsu and it was for self defence.

i do still think if we are talking about the 'norm' of child sexual abuse then we're talking someone know to the child who they feel safe with and will have been 'groomed' to accept what is happening as a 'good' thing. i know in my case it was presented as a 'game'.

Cravey Thu 02-May-13 16:51:02

I think part of the issue here is the fact that it was a different era and also the fact that a lot of these cases ( not all ) were teenage girls. In fact I suspect that the celebs concerned most likely thought that said girls were overage and legal. I think it's a good thing that its coming out now and also that we as a society are more aware now of what is acceptable and what isn't. I also think re the peadophile thing that it has always been there its just that we are more aware foot now due to media etc.

Booyhoo Thu 02-May-13 16:52:39

ah crossposting! yes i do see what you mean about having those skills for throughout their life. in a teen or adult i think knowing you can break a leg or arm to get away would make a big difference as teens/older women are less likely to be 'groomed' in teh same way children are.

Isiolo Thu 02-May-13 16:57:43

the classes i did was 'self defence'...that was what it was called. It was useless. But a martial art, is the art of fighting isnt it? Attack is the best form of defence. It was a long time ago i did the classes...they probably dont even exist any more

But, yes, unfortunately its not much use in protecting against grooming sad

I just want to give my dds as much armour as possible. It sometimes feels really unlikely that they will get through life without being assualted/abused at some point

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