to think Gove has probably forgotten the fun of summer holidays, playing out after school and relaxing?

(235 Posts)
kim147 Fri 19-Apr-13 07:43:06

With his plan to extend the school day and shorten the holidays.

Didn't he spend summer playing outside with his friends? Coming home after school, doing clubs like cubs, playing outside, spending time with his parents and just "being a child"?

AIBU to think he's forgotten what it's like to be a child?

HollyBerryBush Fri 19-Apr-13 07:45:13

I understand his logic, but it will never work. Most childrens capacity for a longer day just isn't there.

The argument would be it works for some countries and other countries have much longer off.

If his idea is to address the literacy problem in this country, I'm afraid you could start them at school from 3, 24 hours a day 365 days a year until they are 20 and it still wouldn't address the problem

What's he proposing OP?

kim147 Fri 19-Apr-13 08:04:02

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/school-timetable-is-only-fit-for-an-agricultural-economy-michael-gove-calls-for-longer-school-days-and-shorter-holidays-8579055.html

Of course - it's a soundbite without any actual detail. Will it be clubs after "school"?

I just think he's forgotten what it is to be a child and how tiring it can be.

Trillz Fri 19-Apr-13 08:30:53

YABU - it's perfectly possible that he remembers it but just does't think it's important in comparison to what he wants to achieve.

Or maybe he didn't have the idyllic childhood that you describe (as many children don't).

I don't necessarily support his proposals but to ascribe them to he has forgotten the joy of being a child is overly simplistic.

exoticfruits Fri 19-Apr-13 08:38:44

It is eroding childhood. Children appear to be a chore and must be cared for for free while parents work long hours- or that is the way I see it.

SpanishFly Fri 19-Apr-13 09:01:30

Ooooh my teacher friends won't be delighted with this proposal!

Sirzy Fri 19-Apr-13 09:04:51

I think he just hates children.

I fully support ideas for more wrap around care and better provision for during school holidays. However, to make the school day longer and holidays shorter is wrong and is stopping children from being children and experiencing all the fantastic things outside of school

Well I think they should keep the Sumer holidays as they r!!! From reception they have homework and they just wanna be kids and play!!!! They don't get to do that enough any more.

indyandlara Fri 19-Apr-13 09:07:20

Glad to not be on England. A compulsory longer day would mean I would home school. I do not want my child in school 9 hours a day.

niceguy2 Fri 19-Apr-13 09:10:38

From reading the article it seems to me like he very much remembers what it was like. And that in his opinion, the timetable is no longer relevant.

I do agree with this though:

"Mr Gove said that research in Hong Kong, Singapore and other East Asian nations showed that expectations of mathematical knowledge and scientific knowledge were “at every stage” more demanding than in Britain."

I have family in HK and my auntie is a senior teacher there. Kids are on average two years ahead in maths than in the UK and expectations are far higher. Tutors have almost reached rock star status (link)

In Asian countries, there is an absolute belief that education is the route out of poverty. And given how quickly that region has grown over the last couple of decades I'd say it is very true.

Like it or not we are competing with them now on the global market. Whether or not scrapping the 6 weeks holidays is the right thing to do, I'm not convinced yet. But I do know we need higher standards and kids need to and can achieve more. And for that I'm glad we've an education secretary who does genuinely seem more bothered about how to raise standards than keeping the teachers happy.

MiniTheMinx Fri 19-Apr-13 09:12:34

I don't think he had any friends.

I don't see any difference btw extended care, after school clubs, CM for after school, holidays camps and the provision of breakfast clubs and this new proposal.

If parents work and rely upon holiday, before and after school care then this won't fundamentally change anything.

I am in favour of this on the proviso that the teaching time/lesson time for core subjects NC remain much the same and access to music, arts and sporting opportunities is made available. This could help to bridge the gap btw state and private provision if done well.

Sirzy Fri 19-Apr-13 09:13:14

And for that I'm glad we've an education secretary who does genuinely seem more bothered about how to raise standards than keeping the teachers happy.

Who is going to raise these standards if the teachers aren't happy?

The teachers are the people who should be being listened to, they are the ones who know the challenges and the problems which are being faced in schools so their is no point just ignoring their views in the search for some sort of 'greater good'

mrsjay Fri 19-Apr-13 09:16:26

It is eroding childhood. Children appear to be a chore and must be cared for for free while parents work long hours- or that is the way I see it.

I agree with you it is trying to make out it is to help working parents blah blah but it just looks like children are an inconvenience that need looked after, this is no reflection on working parents but bloody hell school is 9 till 3/4ish how much longer to we expect school to take care of children

, I do agree the summer holidays are way to long though why not take out half term instead In scotland we dont get the may half term and until recently we had a few days in february I dont understand the half terms is the English summer/easter holidays shorter I would imagine it would all need to balance out somewhere

mrsjay Fri 19-Apr-13 09:17:25

it would end up going to school in shifts couldnt be doing with that dd you are on day shift today you start at 7 and finish at 2 confused

niceguy2 Fri 19-Apr-13 09:17:52

if the teachers aren't happy

If they are so unhappy, they can go find themselves another job and let the teachers who are happy teach.

It seems very much to me like teachers are never happy at any proposals that change the status quo. Especially if it disrupts the 6 weeks holidays.

Sirzy Fri 19-Apr-13 09:20:36

MrsJay - our Easter holidays are 2 weeks and the summer 6 weeks.

I think the half terms are good and a chance to "recharge" your batteries a bit especially for the younger children.

Reducing the 6 weeks holiday to 4 would make sense, perhaps adding the extra 2 weeks onto other holidays.

mrsjay Fri 19-Apr-13 09:23:06

Oh ok sirzy sometimes we have 8 weeks depending on when we break up we have a week in october though so that is a sort of half term it must balance out to the 30 odd weeks that way.

mrsjay Fri 19-Apr-13 09:24:07

we break up in june that is why we dont get may week

SirChenjin Fri 19-Apr-13 09:26:44

I'm with niceguy - we are now competing for jobs in a global market, like it or not. The school holidays we have now were built around the agricultural economy of 2 centuries ago not the world we live in now. I have friends who are teachers at both primary and secondary level - they see the long holidays as a perk of the job rather than an opportunity for children to be children, and will fight tooth and nail to keep that perk. As a parent, I'm less concerned with that perk and more concerned about the opportunities my children have access to through education and extra-curricular activities such as sport and music.

wordfactory Fri 19-Apr-13 09:28:33

I love the long holidays at my DC's private schools (who of course won't reduce them whatever Gove does to state schools).

However, all the research shows that longer holidays simply further advanatge my (already) advanatged DC and disadvanatge those DC who are already disadvanatge.

ie the current system compounds social immobility.

If we keep the status quo, aren't we also saying we don't care about social mobility?
Aren't we saying we would like to help disadvanaged DC but only if it doesn't hurt our own?

wordfactory Fri 19-Apr-13 09:29:55

Also, you only need come on MN during the summer break to see that many parents do not like it!

DorisIsWaiting Fri 19-Apr-13 09:34:09

Reducing the 6 week holiday is an awful plan. Some children need that time as downtime. In addition if all the families in the UK wanted to holiday in those 4 weeks prices would sky rocket (forces of supply and demand /there would be even more limited availability). Business would struggle to allow employees leave, and family time would be further fractured.

As for the longer school day, when do the children have time to do non acaedemic (and therefore low value) activities swimming, brownies, cubs, craft or music? He is not proposing to give over the extra time to these kind of activities he just wants more academic rigour.

I am not a teacher but I am very happy with the standard of teaching my dc receive. It needs to be allowed time to bear fruit.

Children are not machines, they need time to play and grow independently.

StanleyLambchop Fri 19-Apr-13 09:37:21

We get such precious little summer weather in this country, with a six week holiday at least you are spreading out the risk of the entire holiday being rained off. I think it is natural for children to want to enjoy some relaxing time in the sunny weather. There is more to life that just being in school all day long.
Gove is also being very selective when he mentions that longer school days/shorter holidays is already the norm in some countries, without mentioning that other countries have even longer summer breaks and shorter days than we do. Without any apparent damage to their childrens education.

MiniTheMinx Fri 19-Apr-13 09:37:30

The competing in the global economy argument is a bit of a misnomer, we have a global economy which basically means an erosion of the nation state. Capital investment goes to areas where there are skills or cheap labour. So it would be false to say that investment into education will benefit nation states, unless we start to reverse the trend towards the development of other areas of the world. That isn't going to happen.

I would welcome the longer days and shorter holidays as long as excellent extra curricular opportunities were made available. I am predictably only interested in how this might benefit children, not in how this would benefit the UK. Like Gove et al I have very little interest in how we can find ways to make the UK competitive. When Gove wakes up from his 50s inspired dream Dave might point out to him that the time has long past where investment into education directly benefits the nation state.

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