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Longer school day, shorter holidays, aibu?

(108 Posts)
Damselion Thu 18-Apr-13 18:30:29

To think Michael Gove should fuck off? I spend less time with my DC than their teacher's do as it is...

Hulababy Fri 19-Apr-13 18:48:55

This document makes a comparison of school hours and how it is spent, across key stages, for a range of developing countries

www.oecd.org/education/skills-beyond-school/48631122.pdf

MrsMelons Fri 19-Apr-13 15:58:40

My DS is at an independent school and their day is 850-310 for infants, it increases to 330 at juniors and a bit longer at seniors. They still have 4 extra weeks holiday a year plus an inset day each term.

They do sport lessons 4 times a week from juniors, languages from age 4, compulsory imstrument lessons and various other additional lessons that the local state schools don't do.

They have smaller classes of course but seem to get all these things done in a normal school day with more time off and get approx 40% more A-C gcse grades than the local state schools in spite of being non selective.

The answer is most definitely not longer days - this is just an effort to mask the fact that there are too many children in the class room IMO. Surely putting the money into having smaller class sizes would be more beneficial - even 20 at infants/juniors would be a massive improvement.

BimbaBirba Fri 19-Apr-13 14:14:48

*childcare

BimbaBirba Fri 19-Apr-13 14:13:58

Agree with Mrshuxtable. Other European countries have longer summer holidays and shorter school days and have, IMO, more successful education systems.
It's a stupid policy which is trying to get teachers to subsidise child are through the back door with a complete disregard of the welfare of children, teachers and pupils alike hmm

Hulababy Fri 19-Apr-13 14:01:27

True about independents... they use far more specialists in schools ime.

Just thinking of DD's primary school, all of the below are within the normal timetable for all children:

Languages - specialist French teacher who comes in just to teach French but to all children from preschool up, and also go on the French residential trip every other year.
Cookery - specialist teacher; throughout juniors
PE - qualified Pe teacher who was also an Olympian twice; throughout whole school
Diving - Olympic diver (see above) - Y6
Tennis - qualified tennis coach - juniors
Ballet - qualified ballet teacher - infants
Judo - qualified instructor - Y3 and 4
Woodwork - qualified instructor - throughout juniors
Kickstart (ball skills) - qualified instructors - infants

That's just some of them.

The juniors also have different teachers for different classes - so they have an English teacher, a Maths teacher, a science teacher, a humanities teacher, a music teacher, an ICT teacher, etc. These teachers all have subject specialisms and then teach throughout the key stage, specialising in their known subject.

And they have reduced class sizes.

I live in an area with lots of independent schools and I think there are a few reasons why children thrive in them but its not longer days! Most of the independents have the same overall time in school as the state schools, but the main difference is the use of specialist teachers for gym, art, music etc. It means the class teacher is free to focus on the class topics without having to also plan art lessons or PE classes etc. Also the children benefit from being taught subject by people who are specialist in that subject and are enthusiastic about it eg art.

To make the state sector equivalent they would need to free teachers time so that they can teach.

Obviously thought up to facilitate both parents working more hours.

Well we are struggling for people to fill up those thousands of vacant positions in the uk. hmm

Ridiculous. The amount of hours IMO has nothing to do with why we trail behind a lot of other countries education wise. In infant schools the afternoons are already pretty much a write off because the children are so tired. Certainly the more important stuff is done in the morning when the children are alert. Longer days is just going to mean they are tired all the time.
Absolutely insane. I would also be looking to homeschool if this came in.

cornydash Fri 19-Apr-13 07:55:40

you know I think this suggestion about the longer day could be a smokescreen and his main aim is the dismantling of teacher's pay and conditions (which would mean the longer day would eventually be brought in anyway).

BoneyBackJefferson Fri 19-Apr-13 06:48:16

Thanks manic

Seems like a good timetable to work to.

musicposy Fri 19-Apr-13 02:45:50

Why don't we just put our children in an institution at birth and see them again at 18? Then we could all work full time in the non existent jobs and have no childcare worries. All children would be brought up exactly the same and all problems eradicated.

Thank goodness I home educate. I actually like seeing my children once in a while, thank you Mr Gove smile

manicinsomniac Brazil Thu 18-Apr-13 22:47:35

no problem!

I mean teaching PE. And yes, technology is always a double as is art. Science, Maths and English usually have at least one double a week.

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 18-Apr-13 22:35:11

Sorry manic

Just interested in your day smile

When you say sport is that as in teaching PE, or a choice of a sport that is supervised?

Is Technology also a double?

manicinsomniac Brazil Thu 18-Apr-13 22:17:28

Boney

Infants have breaks 11-11.30, 12.30-1.30 and 3.00-3.10

Younger Juniors have breaks 11-11.30, 12.10-12.30 (lunch), 1.10-1.50 and 3.30-3.45.

Older Juniors and Seniors have breaks 11-11.30, 12.50-1.50 and 3.20-3.30

Our lessons are 40 minutes long. There are 9 of them a day (but 2 per day are sport)

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 18-Apr-13 21:39:21

Oh and no Admin help as he is removing that clause from the terms of service as well. So some of the office staff will go as well.

LaQueen Thu 18-Apr-13 21:38:11

I would be happy to see the DDs have a slightly shorter school day, perhaps just 8.30 - 1.30pm...but just have 4-5 weeks of school holidays per year.

It would perhaps suit teachers better. Then they could work a regular, daily 8.30am - 5.00pm (using the time in school from 1.30pm - 5.00pm every day, to do all their prep/marking/planning), and also just have 4-5 of holidays per year.

Whilst you're at it you could link to the thread here to read how Gove has persistently misled parents & then sign the petition to ask him to stop treating out children as political footballs.

And then bump it.
And then get as many other parents to sign it too.

Salmotrutta Thu 18-Apr-13 21:29:02

Actually, I don't know who's worse - your Gove or our Russell hmm

Hulababy Thu 18-Apr-13 21:28:34

That's true.
Well if my TA job goes and this came through - don't think I'd bother returning as a teacher that's for sure.
Mind you - half of the teachers they decide to employ will probably be of the unqualified variety anyway based on past comments from his like.

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 18-Apr-13 21:24:53

Just FYI.

gove wants to do away with the TAs.

cornydash Thu 18-Apr-13 21:24:34

Teachers won't get paid more as they won't have to be qualified.

nancy75 Thu 18-Apr-13 21:24:12

Terrible idea, I would home school if this happened. I actually like spending time with my child and wish some of the holidays were longer.

Salmotrutta Thu 18-Apr-13 21:21:17

Oops! Thread has moved on - again!!

Salmotrutta Thu 18-Apr-13 21:20:32

There's no doubt smaller class sizes have a big impact on attainment.

Far more chance to spend one-to-one time and private schools also have fewer "behavioural" problems. Less time spent on sorting out disruptive pupils!

SlowlorisIncognito Thu 18-Apr-13 21:20:21

I think he hasn't really worked out how much this would cost. It's not just teachers who would be paid more, it would be TAs, secretaries, Lunch time supervisors, supply teachers and other staff being paid more, as most of these staff are paid hourly/daily. More resources would be used by students, and there would probably be more wear and tear on the school buildings and facilities too. School transport would cost more and be at peak times. There would be more useage of electricity and water.

It would also impact on the businesses of childcare providers- these people must contribute to the economy too.

Obviously children are the most important thing, but given Gove is talking about economic benefits, he should also consider the economic losses.

BoneyBackJefferson Thu 18-Apr-13 21:19:04

corny

I don't think that resigning will be an issue.

Paying the extended long term cover for all of the burnt out teachers on medical leave will be the issue.

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