AIBU to blame social science courses for some of this hatred of MrsT

(313 Posts)
Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 13:30:35

I did an OU foundation social science course once. A major part was the detrimental effects of redundancy and unemployment on individuals and the community. It was interesting and spelled out how lives can be devastated by this.

The example was a Yorkshire mining town. It was a good course but I wonder if those, unlike me, who weren't around at the time of the miners' strikes have got a skewed view of why things happened.

Billy Elliot touches on the strikes too I think. But no background info is given, as far as I remember.

Am just amazed at the vitriol - especially by those not directly affected. And it was a long time ago. Don't want to start another debate unless someone has a new point to make.

Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 14:47:05

Yes, Boney, that was partly why I started this - I felt I must be missing something and some good points have been made, and my memory refreshed.

But, like I said above, we burned Polish coal on the fire - it was cheaper - so, just like today, you buy from the cheapest supplier.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ouryve Sat 13-Apr-13 14:47:50

At the time of the miners' strike, PuffPants, those of us who didn't live in mining areas (local industry where I lived, at the time, was primarily biscuits and diggers) only had accounts of what was happening according to the papers, BBC and ITN news to go on. There were 4 channels on TV and no Internet word of mouth to get the truth out.

Dawndonna Sat 13-Apr-13 14:49:07

I was 21 when she was first elected Grinkly I come from a very political and famous background. I am very, very aware of the state of the nation at the time she was elected. I'm also aware, that then, as now, it was a more or less Europe wide recession. I'm also aware, that then, as now, she chose the wrong economic path. Somebody suggested on another thread reading Will Hutton. I suggestion I go along with.
The other point is, had Labour got it, things would have been very different, not necessarily worse. If you read the manifesto of the time, it was actually pretty coherent and pretty good.

Earthymama Sat 13-Apr-13 14:52:06

What she introduced was a sense of selfishness and greed that did not prevail to the same extent before her years in power.

She didn't do it on her own, she had her cronies but she is the face of the destruction of the post-war concensus. We face losing the Welfare State and turning into a country that only values those with money.

You have obviously bought into the I'm Alright Jack mentality OP, shame your Social Sciences course didn't have more impact.

Earthymama Sat 13-Apr-13 14:54:27

Sorry OP x post with your comment about understanding, Touchy subject to a woman from the South Wales valleys, who was condemned as a lone parent and told that her sexuality should not be mentioned in schools.
Again my apologies.

TheSecondComing Sat 13-Apr-13 14:56:27

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fargo86 Sat 13-Apr-13 14:59:45

Prime Ministers can't change the way people think.

Jinsei Sat 13-Apr-13 15:00:51

The funny thing in all of this is that people seem to be firgetting that it was Thatcher's own party that ultimately removed her from office. If she was quite the hero that some would claim now, why did they have to do that?

Mumsyblouse Sat 13-Apr-13 15:01:33

My own feeling is that had MrsT died six or seven years ago before the current recession, everyone would not be as vitriolic as they are now. It seems to be channelling a lot of frustration about the current situation, in which it is now 'obvious' we did the wrong things economically (for which I hold Gordon Brown twice as culpable as MrsT), but had she died when everyone was taking out ultra-low mortgages and jobs were more plentiful, I think this outpouring of extreme anger would be much more muted.

SinisterBuggyMonth Sat 13-Apr-13 15:03:34

YABU

Blame her policies. I'm sure she'd advocate personal responsibilityes anyway.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaVolcan Sat 13-Apr-13 15:07:42

We could have been world leaders in clean coal technology now, but instead she decided to make a political point and wrecked the coal-mining industry.

So we now we are dependent on imported coal from Poland and gas from
Russia, instead of being self-sufficient.

YABU

My Politics lecturer was the biggest MT fan around, she constantly raved about how amazing she was. hmm

piffpoff Sat 13-Apr-13 15:09:25

YYY to all the previous points made about why some sections of the country feel so strongly in their opposition to MT and the long lasting effects from her policies.
For me seeing all the old news items has reminded me how much I hated her voice and her condescending and downright patronising way of addressing people. I found myself feeling irritated all over again just hearing her speak. She was completely convinced that she was always right and never listened to opinions that differed from what she thought even within her own cabinet. I think she completely alienated those of us who disagreed with her policies and some of that was down to the way she came across.

LaVolcan Sat 13-Apr-13 15:10:38

Mumsy, I don't agree. Those areas which were devastated by her would still have been as vitriolic. The times of plenty didn't really reach them, 100% mortgages or no.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheSecondComing Sat 13-Apr-13 15:11:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Toasttoppers Sat 13-Apr-13 15:34:41

David LLoyd George has been dead for a long time as has Clement Atlee but their influence on British politics remains. You are mistaken to think that Mrs Thatchers policies are not influencing your life right now. The way your utilities are delivered to you today is a direct result from British gas, BT etc beng sold off.

If the sufragettes had not existed I like to think we would have still got the vote, but when?

As far as I'm concerned both Thatcher and Blair made huge errors.

Grinkly Sat 13-Apr-13 15:38:25

Will bow to your superior knowledge Dawndonna. Have no idea what labour manifesto was then, do know that Kinnock was a hopeless speaker as he droned on (though others say he was good) but his presentation was poor.

But part of the reason she was so ruthless was because the unions were holding us to ransome and this part of history is conveniently forgotten by many in their anger today. That is what I remember so her behaviour was not as cruel in my eyes.

Agree with Mumsy that were we pre the 2008 crash attitudes would be different. The vitriol against DC on mn is pretty severe. But the labour party seem to do no wrong despite all the years in power.

DomesticCEO Sat 13-Apr-13 15:39:55

It wasn't that long ago!!! I'm 40 and I endured the horrors of Thatcherism.

My mother talks about how bad it had got pre-Thatcher. Schools closed (we just thought we were getting a lovely day off), rubbish piled in the streets, rats everywhere. The unions had an iron fist and you couldn't get a job unless you did exactly what they said. Her family lived in the U.S. and it was very hard for us to visit them apparently because we couldn't take much money out of the country. I remember being a young child and there being blackouts. You couldn't use an extension lead on your phone because there was only one phone company and they didn't allow it, I remember Mercury coming in and finally having a choice and having to dial 131. Pre Mercury all my friends had the exact same phone hard wired into the wall. (this one! www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GPO-BT-Cream-746-Rare-Case-Dial-Telephone-1970s-Phone-Vintage-Eames-Era-Panton-/200905968463?pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Telephony_SM&hash=item2ec6edcb4f )

Yeah it was pretty bad during the Thatcher years, she wasn't called the Iron Lady for nothing. However things were pretty bad pre-Thatcher too.

insancerre Sat 13-Apr-13 15:50:13

The hatred is because her policies still continue to affect people all these years later.
What she did went very deep and it still hurts.

LaVolcan Sat 13-Apr-13 15:58:48

I think people's memories are a bit selective. They seem to have forgotten that there was an earlier miners strike, which also lead to blackouts. Plus an extremely disruptive postal workers strike at much the same time, which seems to have been completely forgotten about now.
While it's nice to blame Labour for this, this was all in Ted Heath's day.

ilovesooty Sat 13-Apr-13 16:27:07

I know of the good things she did (breaking the unions)

That's a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact.

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