ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.

is my DP being completely unreasonable regarding DS2's MMR vaccination today?

(101 Posts)
AnitaManeater Fri 12-Apr-13 08:31:01

Our DS2 (child no 3) is due to have his pre-school boosters today. His last set of injections. I believe vaccinations are necessary and a lifesaver. All of our children have had all the vax's and DP has never queried it before or expressed any opinion.

I have had the appointment on the calendar for a couple of weeks and assumed that DP had seen it and had no objections to the vaccinations. When he asked what we were doing today I said we were doing nothing much, DS2 has his injections at lunchtime and I just wanted to have a nice quiet day indoors in case he was grouchy afterwards. DP then stated he was 'uncomfortable' with DS2 having his vaccinations. He stated they all contained toxins - including one called gardecyl (sp?) and that the actual illnesses they prevented were 'not that bad' He said he had had mumps as a child and he was fine. I was completely [shocked] and tried to explain the complications arising from the diseases which I think went over his head. I also explained to him that there is a current measles outbreak in Wales and that you cannot rely on herd immunity to protect your children.

I asked him what exactly he wanted me to do, to which he didn't have an answer. I am going to take DS2 for the vaccinations but feel like I am going behind his rather ill-informed back. I stated that the date has been on the calendar and the cards have been on the fridge for a couple weeks now. I said the time to speak up was before we had children - I argued that DD had all her vaccinations with no argument from him. I also said if he was that bothered he would have prepared a fully informed case against immunisation, rather than thrusting his mobile phone in my face with showing an article about 4 children in Nepal dying after a vaccination (it was thrust so close to my face and so briefly I couldn't even see what injections it was or where the source was from!)

My DP listens to a lot of David Icke, John Harris and Alex Jones on the radio / youtube and is quite into conspiracy theories which I find hugely irritating and frustrating. I suspect he's got his new opinions from something they have been broadcasting.

AIBU to go ahead and get the vaccination done?

HellesBelles396 Sat 13-Apr-13 13:07:39

the headline does not match the content unfortunately - it goes on to make it very clear that the MMR is not linked to autism by any reputable study but you wouldn't know if you hadn't waded through his guff.

noblegiraffe Sat 13-Apr-13 12:59:23

Shame on the Independent for that headline, and shame on Wakefield. He played far more of a role in the Swansea epidemic than the government. If not for his flawed study, would parents have even wanted the single jab?

HellesBelles396 Sat 13-Apr-13 12:52:17

Individual jabs are not available - nor should they be. It would reduce take-up of vaccination as well as increasing the number of injections at a huge cost to the country merely to allay the concerns of parents who have not looked beyond soundbites. Only one study - Andrew Wakefield's - ever found a link between MMR and autism or bowel disease. A study that was flawed in so many ways.

Andrew Wakefield is trying to blame the government for the outbreak caused by his study (the majority of children who have been infected should have had their jabs at the time of his "research")

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mmr-scare-doctor-andrew-wakefield-breaks-his-silence-measles-outbreak-in-wales-proves-i-was-right-8570594.html

Perihelion Fri 12-Apr-13 21:36:56

Mumps can be really nasty too and not just for males. I had encephalitis as a complication. Was paralysed and still suffer weakness on my left side 36 years later and my mum reckons I changed personality and wasn't the same child I'd been before.
Roughly 10% chance of dying if you get encephalitis.........

ShadowStorm Fri 12-Apr-13 19:40:30

YANBU.

Measles in particular can be very very nasty (and just because higgle was fine doesn't make it nothing to worry about. I used to work with a lady who was completely deaf in one ear as a result of childhood measles).

If your DH has genuine concerns over the safety of vaccinations, it's very odd that he hasn't mentioned it before. I would expect a parent who had concerns about vaccine safety to have discussed it with the other parent and to make themselves aware about what vaccines children are offered and when they're offered them. Not bring it up for the first time as his youngest child is about to get his final vaccinations.

Dawndonna Fri 12-Apr-13 17:55:47

Are you serious, Higgle

CMP69 Fri 12-Apr-13 14:19:20

We are in the middle of a measles outbreak in the NE (and in Wales) I am so glad ds (4) has had all his vaccs. However I consistently refuse to have my flu vaccine at work (NHS) so am not pro unnecessary jabs

Calabria Fri 12-Apr-13 14:01:43

Not read the whole thread yet.

I had measles when I was a child and I was definitely NOT alright. I nearly died.

He is being very unreasonable.

firesidechat Fri 12-Apr-13 13:56:53

I would highly recommend the Bad Science book by Ben Goldacre. He has a whole chapter on The MMR and the scare that was based on bad science, basically. The worries about MMR were resolved years ago now, so your partner is a bit behind.

A relative has severe mental health issues and various conspiracy theories were a bit part of it. I know you can't make him leave this stuff alone, but it's obviously not doing him any favours.

yeayea89 Fri 12-Apr-13 13:56:13

Get the vaccinations done... You can still pick up diseases, but you would only have a mild form of them with vaccines. People who don't have them done are the reason outbreaks occur... And put people at risk! There is a reason they have created a vaccine against, you don't go and get a chicken pox vaccine as its only a mild illness. Vaccines are for preventing life threatening illnesses

higgle Fri 12-Apr-13 13:54:16

Can't undertand all this fus over measles vaccination, when I was young most people had it and weren't all that ill. I had it when I was 15, and it was not nice but not terrible.

AnitaManeater Fri 12-Apr-13 13:50:01

Withaspider that's what I assumed the case was here. I have always made the majority of decisions regarding the children. He's never queried it before and he knows I wouldn't do something that I felt wasn't beneficial. Think he was just trying to stir it up this morning and he's now clutching at straws.

AnitaManeater Fri 12-Apr-13 13:43:21

I can't stand the whole conspiracy thing. I love a good debate, I love to learn new things. I consider myself to be open minded and tolerant. I like to think I make decisions based on all the facts available.

I can't stand the look in DP's eye or how excited he gets when he's talking about the latest load of crap Alex Jones has to offer. Apart from when he's going on about conspiracy theories he is rational, well educated and a very likeable bloke.

I tried to debate with him once as to why Alex Jones was 'right' and Jehovahs Witness's were 'wrong' We even have a sign on our door saying 'no religious sects'. He had no answer and just kept going off on a tangent at which point I gave up. Which is what happens every time I try to put my point across and get him to understand.

WithASpider Fri 12-Apr-13 13:41:50

This thread just reminded me to book DS's pre-school booster, Thanks!

My Dh, Like yours, Has no idea what vacs our DC have had. He simply assumes i wouldn't do something to them that wasn't beneficial.

TumbleWeeds Fri 12-Apr-13 13:36:21

Well I am not really pro vax and I still think your DP is BU!

If you have an issue with vax, the least you can do is
1- to talk about it to your partner
2- know what sort of vax your children have had/are going to have
3- read a lot about the different vax and learn what are the potential issues with each of them as well as the good sides.

I am even more shock at his attitude now that we know your ds has ASD. Seeing all the commotions created by the MMR and autism in the past, I would have thought he would have being even more careful re the MMR and subsequent children but he didn't even know which vax his dc was going to have!
<<Note: not saying there is a link between MMR and your ds autism. Just that it's a link that most people who have looked at vax safety would made and would certainly have had as serious look. Especially when you have one child affected iyswim>>

StuntGirl Fri 12-Apr-13 13:30:18

Conspiracy theorists are exhausting aren't they? My Uncle, an otherwise intelligent, educated, scientific man will come out with some right weird statements that he is adamant are true. I don't engage, he's not interested in a debate, just interested in telling everyone else how they're wrong.

motherinferior Fri 12-Apr-13 13:28:49

If he thinks the MMR has Gardasil in it, he's quite worryingly ill-informed.

AnitaManeater Fri 12-Apr-13 13:25:14

I absolutely agree with you lottie oxford Andro & foslady and you have put it all far better than I have. I will make mental notes and use them when we 'debate' this later when he gets back.

I have just been to the health centre and had the injections done grin

My DS1 came downstairs when we got home and asked if DS2 had autism yet (DS1 is autistic himself) and it did make me chuckle. DS1 surprised me with some research he had gone and done off his own back after overhearing our discussion this morning. Seem like my 14yr old DS1 has more sense than 40yr old DP!!

OxfordBags Fri 12-Apr-13 13:05:04

And I agree with what Lottie just said smile

lottiegarbanzo Fri 12-Apr-13 12:47:57

I agree with OxfordBags and, from my own experience, being irritable, snappy and reacting against things others do, while feeling powerless to do much yourself, is consistent with mild depression.

I was going to make a different and very rational point though. You said upthread that he offers his view and 'evidence', you offer yours, then it's stalemate. No it isn't.

You are relying on normal, established practice, developed and honed over years by a huge community of highly trained professionals who act upon a vast base of rigorous, published research. He is not.

Saying 'oh but I'm not sure about this', 'what about that?', 'so and so's opinion is this' is not evidence against that, it is a set of questions that demonstate an interest in learning, or should do. Unfortunately conspiracy theorists and their subscribers don't want to learn. They want the world to be simple, fully comprehensible to them and comforting in its predictability and not the complex, intriguing, unpredictable environment that it is.

It is very easy to sit and snipe at things others do, when you know you're not going to have to do them or take responsibility for the consequences. It is far harder to form a comprehensive and coherent alternative. Harder again to put that into action. Ask the Liberal Democrats.

Really, if your DP has bought into an alternative world view, he, like a politician, needs to look at the big picture, formulate a full set of policies and try to persuade you his alternative lifestyle is realistic and beneficial. Sitting at home saying 'I'm happy to enjoy all the benefits of the life we have but actually I think the world is run by lizards and we should be living in the woods' or 'I'll take it all but just want the freedom to snipe at the things you do when I'm at work' is just lazy hypocrisy.

OxfordBags Fri 12-Apr-13 12:23:40

Him suddenly ranting about this might be a sign that mental health issues/delusions/paranoia might be flaring. Suddenly becoming properly aware that today is vax day might be triggering. As Andro says, it's all very sudden - to me, that sounds like a deterioration in his grip on rationality. He sounds hysterical and like he's losing it a bit. And apart from any of that, he is also being an arse, leaving all that stuff up to you to sort out and then demanding it doesn't happen at the last minute. Just that chaotic attitude in itself is as worrying as it is annoying. It sounds part of a bit of a prob.

Not trying to be some amateur interwebs psychologist, but he's not sounding mentally fabulous, sorry.

foslady Fri 12-Apr-13 12:02:04

My GP's 2nd child is autistic. He still insisted on his 3rd child having the MMR vaccine. Suggest that if he wants to research properly he looks at both sides of the argument, the field size used and the background issues in each medical trial. That way he'll see just why the MMR trial was discredited so much.

Andro Fri 12-Apr-13 12:01:07

AnitaManeater - it does seem to be sudden about face without a significant trigger...

I'm very much of the mindset that anyone has the right to hold an opinion, but I expect them to back it up! I would never say 'don't vaccinate' to anyone, but I would be very concerned (and reluctant) about either of my dc having any more vaccinations because of how sick DD was.

ClayDavis Fri 12-Apr-13 11:50:56

Only scanned it but the methodology seems to include answering a survey on an anti vax website. Can't see any issue there. hmm

schobe Fri 12-Apr-13 11:35:34

What a dick. People like this give the more sensible contributors to this debate a bad name.

As a rule of thumb, people that basically resort to 'well it's because I'm a lot cleverer than you' in an argument, tend not to be all that clever imo.

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