to be sick of the misogynist 'ding dong the witch is dead' stuff?(154 Posts)
Look, I didn't like her either, but the misogyny of some of the retweetings and facebookings of 'ding dong the witch is dead' are really annoying me.
FFS. She wasn't a witch, and if you lot are simpleminded enough to cast yourselves as a. munchkins or b. witchhunters, then you are bringing the left into disrepute.
Stop it. Stop it now.
ps-and my gran was rascist-even though her great-grandson is mixed race!
a sign of their times, like the 70's 'love thy naighbour' stuff.it was just the way she was brought up, she wasnt an bad person-
well, Ive just cried. watching the news and recent footage of her tottering out of no 10, having to be helped to negotiate the steps.
A strong bold woman that got old and ill and ended up so frail and delicate.
for all her 'faults', she died a frail old woman, someones mother and grandmother. just reminded me of my gran, she was just as delicate in her last days.
Couscous I think the point you make about people taking responsibility is spot on - and I find it depressing and plain weird that this isn't obvious to everyone (hence my earlier post about Thatcher having legitimately held office). However much people despise(d) her policies, and however disastrous they were, they are what the electorate chose. Marina Lewicka wrote an excellent piece about how her policies appealed to fear and greed.
Also, Couscous, your point about how her holding office and what she did as PM may have damaged women's status in politics reminds me of what my dear grandfather used to tell me - way back in the 80s, when he used to predict how Thatcher would be hated for decades to come. Used to say we'll be unlikely to see another female PM for a century because of how she'll be remembered and seen as such a hate figure.
So yes, all this 'Ding Dong the Witch is Dead' does seem to represent deep misogyny, and an apathetic sort of scapegoating and denial of collective responsibility. Funny how these attitudes go hand in hand.
Ive not really commented on MT or her demise as I was too young to remember her as prime minister, and I dont speak ill of the dead nor enjoy grave-dancing.
However since learning about her racist comments on Asians to the Aussie foreign minister I am hugely offended and really couldnt give a shit what anyone called her. <Shrug>
you could have a good point there couscous.
I think that the tone of all this is depressingly misogynistic. It is like she can't be forgiven for being a woman but displaying so many traits that are considered to be masculine. I think it was only possible for to her to succeed because of her tough rhetoric and authoritarianism. Being hated by many was probably far less fatal to her election chances than being despised as a weak, indecisive woman.
Sadly I don't think we have really moved on. How many women do you see succeeding in politics at the moment? Given all this Ding Dong Witch stuff about Thatcher how much do you want to bet that if a women does make it to the top of British politics much of the criticism aimed at her will be throughly sexist in its nature? She will be criticised for not being a real woman but a bitch, a witch and a ball breaker who neglects her kids. Otherwise if she is a bit softer she will be called over emotional, indecisive and not committed to the job. Regardless of personality there will be endless snide comments that she is too fat, too thin, bad hair, wrong clothes, shrill voice. I can imagine it right now....
The fact is that people voted Thatcher in. Lots of them. Given that we are a democracy I think if she really was so awful then the ultimate responsibility lies with the voters of the 70s and 80s. So perhaps everyone needs to start dancing on the graves of their own parents and grandparents or at least go and ask them why they made the decisions so many of them obviously did.
just seen on sky news a party/demonatration in trafalgar square. im in disbelief.
whatever people think of her, one extreme to the other, its just sick. sick.
i am convinced half these people dont even know the story, its just another boozy britain excuse to party and get drunk on a saturday night.
and those that ARE the hate crowd, ffs, its putting her in the same pen as hitler/bin laden, i mentioned that earlier. i really dont get it. tbh i feel contempt big time about the current lot but not to the point of this.
It's pretty cowardly to leave one's protesting until the person has died!
OP you are most definitely NBU!
I can see you're the OP because I have you highlighted in green. Makes life easier for me.
I don't find any of it offensive, I do think different strokes for different folks and my opinion is she deserves it. But I'm capable of backing up my arguments and tend not, until pushed, to be rude and difficult.
Dawndonna, I stood as a local councillor but lost. Under Major, not Thatcher. It was a safe Tory ward with a deference vote.
And I still really hate the witch is dead stuff. In fact, I'm the OP.
I don't mind people having an opinion on her as long as they have actually taken the time to inform themselves of both sides and made their own decision on it. The amount of people who "hate" her and have been on about it this week and jumping on the bandwagon yet when asked why they hate her they say "Erm... well... she did close the mines didn't she?"
Grinkly. I'm 54. I was a local councillor when she was pm. Stop bleating yourself. She was a rude, difficult divisive woman who did nothing for those that needed it and everything for those that didn't. Try reading some real articles, alternatively the Daily Fail site is thataway>
But fortunately this is a blip of 'hatred' (ie people whingeing on fb) that will be forgotten in a month or so.
It's as if we didn't have 13years (I think it was ) of labour power. FFS.
The people bleating here aren't old enough (obviously from their comments) to remember much about her.
It is laughable in a way but quite scary too that people can be so easily led and confused.
Also, though, is it not perhaps slightly misogynistic to describe Thatcher as a 'tyrant'/compare her to real dictators? If she'd been a man, might people not have had a more realistic, intelligent respnse to her?
fancyanother I absolutely agree - drawing parallels between Thatcher and the mass murderers you name in your post is absurd and demonstrates a complete lack of awareness of basic principles of democracy and simple historical facts.
That said, I do find myself wondering when people say they 'admire her guts' (Thatcher's, I mean, and metaphorically, obviously). I mean you've gotta have some chutzpah to wield your illegitimate rule over several million subjects who hate your guts. So if you 'admire' Thatcher's guts, superstar....
Madizzy, she destroyed communities, yes, she contributed to the greedy, grabbing society we have today, she was no friend of the poor and disposessed- she didn't gas them in their millions or 'disappear' them. To put her victims in the same context as the victims of Hitler, Sadaam and Pinochet is not context, and minimises the gravity of what those men did.
sieglinde I think Alexei Sayle was talking about Thatcher in relation to other twentieth century UK parliamentarians. Sorry I didn't describe his comment in enough detail for you to understand it fully. On which note, perhaps people haven't revived songs about the death of tyrants, because however awful as she was, Thatcher was not a tyrant. Her holding of office as PM was entirely legitimate and in keeping with democratic principles. I don't think anyone who has lived in a state ruled by a 'tyrant' would dream of describing Thatcher as that, however much they might despise her policies.
I agree that using the Ding Dong the Witch is Dead song is silly and pathetic, but I must say I think it's less so than it would be were people to try and pretend that Thatcher was a 'tyrant'. 'Tyrants' really exist. 'Witches' (in the sense of this song) don't. Therefore I'd say calling Thatcher the latter is a lot less offensive and ridiculous than calling her a tyrant.
Rola, actually I remember Thatcher as moderately easily hurt. Just not willing to change to get people's good opinion.
Putting the "frail old lady" comments into context - awww, poor Saddam, he was just a frail old man living in a hole, poor hitler taking his own life, poor Pinochet (one of her bezzies) was a frail old man. I don't dance on graves, but I certainly won't be mourning that vile, vile woman.
It is uncalled for and unacceptable, she is hardly on par with Hitler who killed millions with his racist fascist ways. Why all the parties and protests now, they seem to have all come out of te woodwork. There have been prim ministers with good and bad policies before her and there are after her. it's all very sick, vile and in very bad taste. Disrespecting Thatchers family. Why don't those people do something positive in te community to Mae change, join a political party or one of your own and try and make changes yourself instead of resorting to vile bullying behaviour. Two special needs teachers were in the media inciting hatred and vile behaviour, I hope to god that this s not representative of all teachers ad none of tt teachers who work with dd asd beavers like that
Which is a pity, as Major was a GIANT TOOL who did just as many bad things as MT - closing the last pits, for example, and I well remember marching in the rain against the last closures, 400,000 of us.
At first I felt it was all in very bad taste but then I decided that MT probably wouldn't have cared less what people thought about her and the fact that we're all still arguing about her shows just how important she really was. I can't see the same amount of fuss being made when John Major dies.
I remember her resignation as a source of glee for about 6 hours. Then it dawned on all academic women that people were being ridiculously misogynist. So exactly like now, really.
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