to be sick of the misogynist 'ding dong the witch is dead' stuff?

(154 Posts)
sieglinde Wed 10-Apr-13 11:27:11

Look, I didn't like her either, but the misogyny of some of the retweetings and facebookings of 'ding dong the witch is dead' are really annoying me.

FFS. She wasn't a witch, and if you lot are simpleminded enough to cast yourselves as a. munchkins or b. witchhunters, then you are bringing the left into disrepute.

Stop it. Stop it now.

DeepRedBetty Wed 10-Apr-13 12:31:42

Mittens... witch is used as a derogatory term for females, usually older and not particularly attractive ones. Can you ever say that you've muttered 'evil old witch' about an elderly ugly MAN under your breath?

Thought not.

LessMissAbs Wed 10-Apr-13 12:31:48

WMittens presumably because its a term used derogatively to refer only to females, implying a deviation from accepted social female norms.

TheNebulousBoojum Wed 10-Apr-13 12:43:04

Well, the IRA tried dropping a hotel on her and that didn't work.

As for miserable old witch, mean old cunt, bitchy twat, these are all common insults used on MN to describe older women that the poster has had a disagreement with. Unpleasant, whichever woman is the target

Ullena Wed 10-Apr-13 14:13:37

Really Boojum? You really think that was appropriate in any circumstances? FFS...

<blows raspberry at loopy Dingdongers>
<gets back to polishing cauldron>

WMittens Wed 10-Apr-13 15:05:47

DeepRedBetty

Mittens... witch is used as a derogatory term for females, usually older and not particularly attractive ones. Can you ever say that you've muttered 'evil old witch' about an elderly ugly MAN under your breath?

Thought not.

I would interpret the connotation of the remark as 'evil' rather '{derogatory sentiment} female'. It is not an insult to MT because she was a woman, but rather the commenter's disapproval of her actions.

You wouldn't hear it said about a man because 'witch' (generally) refers to a female; the masculine equivalent is 'warlock'.

I don't think it's misogynist.

Moominsarehippos Wed 10-Apr-13 15:19:45

I am irritated by these babies who must have been at primary school/not born yet when she was in power. These people aren't protesting a out the 'bedroom' tax, or any of the other crappy policies, tax rebates, etc. it's just an excuse for people to pratt about and do a bit of looting.

We protested against Maggie in the 80's ffs.

KellyElly Wed 10-Apr-13 15:33:45

I don't think it's misogynist Quite! In poor taste maybe but not misogynistic.

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 15:39:07

A lot of people ruined their own lives and blamed Thatcher for it instead of blaming themselves.
The same could be said of anyone who had difficulty. However, Thatcher really did ruin many, many lives, Fargo

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 15:41:46

I am irritated by these babies who must have been at primary school/not born yet when she was in power. These people aren't protesting a out the 'bedroom' tax, or any of the other crappy policies, tax rebates, etc. it's just an excuse for people to pratt about and do a bit of looting.
If it moves people to become politically engaged, it may be a good thing. Oh, and the looting happened in the eighties too.
It is people protesting about a legacy, the policies are perpetuating those which she initiated.

Quite agree Dawndonna.

sieglinde Wed 10-Apr-13 15:56:53

The POINT is that it's a derogatory term which is ONLY applied to women. That's what sexism IS. smile

"Misogyny is different from sexism, which is not based on hate. Sexists want to give different rights and roles to women and men, but not because there is something wrong with either sex. Sexists think it is natural or right that sexes have different rights and roles. They believe God or nature has made women and men different and therefore they belong to different roles in society"

Only taken from Wikipedia but I have to agree.

Sexism can be applied to males or females, misogyny can not. smile

I cannot regard it as misogynist. Misogyny is hatred of women - ALL women. This is about MT - one woman. The hatred being expressed is personal, not misogynistic.

Moominsarehippos Wed 10-Apr-13 16:53:04

But a lot of the protesting is 'protest lite'. They are just doing it for fun, not for any deep seated ideological reason, of feelings of social/economic discontent. The faces I see aren't ex-miners or people from communities that used to have industry long gone (as I am actually). Our town gave itself a boot up the arse and other industries grew up in place of those lost (to cheaper foreign imports - we couldn't compete, no way in hell).

The faces I see are 20-somethings who wouldn't be able to articulate their grievances beyond 'I hate her'(not her policies, her beliefs, her legacy) 'she screwed the country, the bitchy' or the classic 'she stole my miiiiilk'. No, they won't be joining a political party any time soon. Its not legacy that we need to protest - its how we are being screwed now (and how!) that needs to be protested and argued against.

And looting has had a revival - it just shows what a shitty society we have become and I don't blame politics for that - more the entitled 'me' generation of 'I deserve, I must have, I want therefore I take...'.

There have been better and there have been worse PMs. Blair was at the helm at the time when the UK really went to the dogs. Brown sold off the country's gold reserves at the worst possible time when he was Chancellor, and really dropped the ball in general. They (and others) won't get half of the venom that she (as a woman, not as ex PM) is getting now. What's it 'b-LIAR'? Who thought of that stinging gem of critism?

The 1980s was a crap period (for lots or reasons) but it wasn't down to one person. Actually, the 70 were crappy too. I remember the strikes, the trade unions' strength, the fear we had that we would have no electricity, the piles of rubbish in the streets... She wasn't the cause. I had no time for her myself.

I applaud debate, but dancing on someone's grave? It's just not ut a lot of the protesting is 'protest lite'. They are just doing it for fun, not for any deep seated ideological reason, of feelings of social/economic discontent. The faces I see aren't ex-miners or people from communities that used to have industry long gone (as I am actually). Our town gave itself a boot up the arse and other industries grew up in place of those lost (to cheaper foreign imports - we couldn't compete, no way in hell). The faces I see are 20-somethings who wouldn't be able to articulate their grievances beyond 'cos she screwed the country, the bitchy' or the classic 'she stole my miiiiilk'. No, they won't be joining a political party any time soon. Its not legacy that we need to protest - its how we are being screwed now (and how!). And the looting has had a revival - it just shows what a shitty society we have become and I don't blame politics for that - more the entitled 'me' generation of 'I deserve, I must have, I want therefore I take...'.

There have been better and there have been worse PMs. Blair was at the helm at the time when the UK really went to the dogs. Brown sold off the country's gold reserves at the worst possible time when he was Chancellor, and really dropped the ball in general. They (and others) won't get half of the venom that she (as a woman, not as ex PM) is getting now. What's it 'b-LIAR'? Who thought of that stinging gem of critism?

The 1980s was a crap period (for lots or reasons) but it wasn't down to one person. She wasn't the cause. I had no time for her myself.

I'm all for debate, but when the pitchforks come out, I'm off.

Picturesinthefirelight Wed 10-Apr-13 16:56:26

I prefer Defying Gravity myself. She was a powerful woman who showed women they could reach the very top.

gallifrey Wed 10-Apr-13 17:04:41

actually she was a very frail 87 year old woman.

pigletmania Wed 10-Apr-13 17:15:52

Yanbu it is disgusting and says a lot for the people singing and posting it. No respect for themselves or their country. Most of them were not alive during Thatchers office and probably have no clue of her policies and the impact they have. Just an excuse for violence and thuggary

Dawndonna Wed 10-Apr-13 17:17:56

I have no intention of being violent piglet your kneejerk reaction does not do you credit.

hackmum Wed 10-Apr-13 17:18:35

YANBU. I despised her as a politician and as a human being, but all this "witch" stuff is misogynistic. Surprised at how much I disliked it, actually.

fancyanother Wed 10-Apr-13 17:19:45

Yes, I get the feeling that a lot of the vitriol would not have happened if she had not been a woman. It makes me quite uncomfortable. I was no fan of hers, but I bet her adopted son, Tony Blair won't get half the vitriol she has when he dies. (I bet his wife will though)
Witch is a derogatory term only used for women. Warlock is seen as someone strong and magical, a witch is seen as someone evil, someone to be feared and reviled, and only applies to women. It it indicative of a mysoginistic trait if someone uses that term to describe an old, frail woman

thebody Wed 10-Apr-13 17:20:08

Moonmin,, fantastic post.

Hackmum agree its vile.

Zara1984 Wed 10-Apr-13 17:20:26

YANBU we won't see this kind of thing when Blair goes.

Whatever your views on her and her policies, nobody can deny that she was a strong, fearless woman who shattered one of the biggest glass ceilings of them all. You can hate her policies but you can admire her achievements as a woman.

You hear similar misogynistic slagging off of former NZ (Labour) PM Helen Clark in that country. It's revolting.

thebody Wed 10-Apr-13 17:20:55

Oh and pig, well said.

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