ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Do you agree with Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher - 'I always felt sorry for her children'?(98 Posts)
Yes another thread on MT and I am sure there will be more.
I have always liked RB and remember when he also wrote a fitting article about Jade Goody after her death. Behind the spiky hair and OTT personality, I find RB to be a very intelligent individual.
Anyway, here is a brilliant (IMO) article he has written about MT. Absolutely spot on.
(I have also pasted the article here to minimise accusation of trying to get hits for the Guardian, haha.
Russell Brand on Margaret Thatcher: 'I always felt sorry for her children'
The actor and comedian recalls a bizarre recent encounter with the Iron Lady, and how it prompted him to think about growing up under the most unlikely matriarch-figure imaginable
One Sunday recently while staying in London, I took a stroll in the gardens of Temple, the insular clod of quads and offices between the Strand and the Embankment. It's kind of a luxury rent-controlled ghetto for lawyers and barristers, and there is a beautiful tailors, a fine chapel, established by the Knights Templar (from which the compound takes its name), a twee cottage designed by Sir Christopher Wren and a rose garden; which I never promised you.
My mate John and I were wandering there together, he expertly proselytising on the architecture and the history of the place, me pretending to be Rumpole of the Bailey (quietly in my mind), when we spied in the distant garden a hunched and frail figure, in a raincoat, scarf about her head, watering the roses under the breezy supervision of a masticating copper. "What's going on there, mate?" John asked a nearby chippy loading his white van. "Maggie Thatcher," he said. "Comes here every week to water them flowers." The three of us watched as the gentle horticultural ritual was feebly enacted, then regarded the Iron Lady being helped into the back of a car and trundling off. In this moment she inspired only curiosity, a pale phantom, dumbly filling her day. None present eyed her meanly or spoke with vitriol and it wasn't until an hour later that I dreamt up an Ealing comedy-style caper in which two inept crooks kidnap Thatcher from the garden but are unable to cope with the demands of dealing with her, and finally give her back. This reverie only occurred when the car was out of view. In her diminished presence I stared like an amateur astronomer unable to describe my awe at this distant phenomenon.
When I was a kid, Thatcher was the headmistress of our country. Her voice, a bellicose yawn, somehow both boring and boring I could ignore the content but the intent drilled its way in. She became leader of the Conservatives the year I was born and prime minister when I was four. She remained in power till I was 15. I am, it's safe to say, one of Thatcher's children. How then do I feel on the day of this matriarchal mourning?
I grew up in Essex with a single mum and a go-getter Dagenham dad. I don't know if they ever voted for her, I don't know if they liked her. My dad, I suspect, did. He had enough Del Boy about him to admire her coiffured virility but in a way Thatcher was so omnipotent; so omnipresent, so omni-everything that all opinion was redundant.
As I scan the statements of my memory bank for early deposits (it'd be a kid's memory bank account at a neurological NatWest where you're encouraged to become a greedy little capitalist with an escalating family of porcelain pigs), I see her in her hairy helmet, condescending on Nationwide, eviscerating eunuch MPs and baffled BBC fuddy duddies with her General Zodd stare and coldly condemning the IRA. And the miners. And the single mums. The dockers. The poll-tax rioters. The Brixton rioters, the Argentinians, teachers; everyone actually.
Thinking about it now, when I was a child she was just a strict woman telling everyone off and selling everything off. I didn't know what to think of this fearsome woman.
Perhaps my early apathy and indifference are a result of what Thatcher deliberately engendered, the idea that "there is no such thing as society", that we are alone on our journey through life, solitary atoms of consciousness. Or perhaps it was just because I was a little kid and more interested in them Weetabix skinheads, Roland Rat and Knight Rider. Either way, I'm an adult now and none of those things are on telly any more so there's no excuse for apathy.
When John Lennon was told of Elvis Presley's death, he famously responded: "Elvis died when he joined the army," meaning of course, that his combat clothing and clipped hair signalled the demise of the thrusting, Dionysian revolution of which he was the immaculate emblem.
When I awoke today on LA time my phone was full of impertinent digital eulogies. It'd be disingenuous to omit that there were a fair number of ding-dong-style celebratory messages amidst the pensive reflections on the end of an era. Interestingly, one mate of mine, a proper leftie, in his heyday all Red Wedge and right-on punch-ups, was melancholy. "I thought I'd be overjoyed, but really it's just another one bites the dust " This demonstrates, I suppose, that if you opposed Thatcher's ideas it was likely because of their lack of compassion, which is really just a word for love. If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies.
Perhaps, though, Thatcher "the monster" didn't die yesterday from a stroke, perhaps that Thatcher died as she sobbed self-pitying tears as she was driven, defeated, from Downing Street, ousted by her own party. By then, 1990, I was 15, adolescent and instinctively anti-establishment enough to regard her disdainfully. I'd unthinkingly imbibed enough doctrine to know that, troubled as I was, there was little point looking elsewhere for support. I was on my own. We are all on our own. Norman Tebbit, one of Thatcher's acolytes and fellow "Munsters evacuee", said when the National Union of Mineworkers eventually succumbed to the military onslaught and starvation over which she presided: "We didn't just break the strike, we broke the spell." The spell he was referring to is the unseen bond that connects us all and prevents us from being subjugated by tyranny. The spell of community.
Those strikes were confusing to me as a child. All of the Tory edicts that bludgeoned our nation, as my generation squirmed through ghoulish puberty, were confusing. When all the public amenities were flogged, the adverts made it seem to my childish eyes fun and positive, jaunty slogans and affable British stereotypes jostling about in villages, selling people companies that they'd already paid for through tax. I just now watched the British Gas one again. It's like a whimsical live-action episode of Postman Pat where his cat is craftily carved up and sold back to him.
"The News" was the pompous conduit through which we suckled at the barren baroness through newscaster wet-nurses, naturally; not direct from the steel teat. Jan Leeming, Sue Lawley, Moira Stuart delivering doctrine with sterile sexiness, like a butterscotch-scented beige vapour. To use a less bizarre analogy: if Thatcher was the headmistress, they were junior teachers, authoritative but warm enough that you could call them "mum" by accident. You could never call Margaret Mother by mistake. For a national matriarch she is oddly unmaternal. I always felt a bit sorry for her biological children Mark and Carol, wondering from whom they would get their cuddles. "Thatcher as mother" seemed, to my tiddly mind, anathema. How could anyone who was so resolutely Margaret Thatcher be anything else? In the Meryl Streep film, The Iron Lady, it's the scenes of domesticity that appear most absurd. Knocking up a flan for Denis or helping Carol with her algebra or Mark with his gun-running, are jarring distractions from the main narrative; woman as warrior queen.
It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.
I have few recollections of Thatcher after the slowly chauffeured, weepy Downing Street cortege. I'd become a delinquent, living on heroin and benefit fraud.
There were sporadic resurrections. She would appear in public to drape a hankie over a model BA plane tailfin because she disliked the unpatriotic logo with which they'd replaced the union flag (maybe don't privatise BA then), or to shuffle about some country pile arm in arm with a doddery Pinochet and tell us all what a fine fellow he was. It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context. They're happy to share big windfall bonuses with their cronies, they'll stick up for deposed dictator chums when they're down on their luck, they'll find opportunities in business for people they care about. I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most. I know from my own indulgence in selfish behaviour that it's much easier to get what you want if you remove from consideration the effect your actions will have on others.
Is that what made her so formidable, her ability to ignore the suffering of others? Given the nature of her legacy "survival of the fittest" a phrase that Darwin himself only used twice in On the Origin of Species, compared to hundreds of references to altruism, love and cooperation, it isn't surprising that there are parties tonight in Liverpool, Glasgow and Brixton from where are they to have learned compassion and forgiveness?
The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end there isn't. Her death must be sad for the handful of people she was nice to and the rich people who got richer under her stewardship. It isn't sad for anyone else. There are pangs of nostalgia, yes, because for me she's all tied up with Hi-De-Hi and Speak and Spell and Blockbusters and "follow the bear". What is more troubling is my inability to ascertain where my own selfishness ends and her neo-liberal inculcation begins. All of us that grew up under Thatcher were taught that it is good to be selfish, that other people's pain is not your problem, that pain is in fact a weakness and suffering is deserved and shameful. Perhaps there is resentment because the clemency and respect that are being mawkishly displayed now by some and haughtily demanded of the rest of us at the impending, solemn ceremonial funeral, are values that her government and policies sought to annihilate.
I can't articulate with the skill of either of "the Marks" Steel or Thomas why Thatcher and Thatcherism were so bad for Britain but I do recall that even to a child her demeanour and every discernible action seemed to be to the detriment of our national spirit and identity. Her refusal to stand against apartheid, her civil war against the unions, her aggression towards our neighbours in Ireland and a taxation system that was devised in the dark ages, the bombing of a retreating ship it's just not British.
I do not yet know what effect Margaret Thatcher has had on me as an individual or on the character of our country as we continue to evolve. As a child she unnerved me but we are not children now and we are free to choose our own ethical codes and leaders that reflect them.
I read this after Caitlin Moran linked to it on Twitter and was surprised that it was written by him. To me it comes across as having been written by someone who wants to show how clever he is (lots of big words and dramatic comparisons) rather than someone who genuinely writes well.
That aside, a lot of the content struck a chord with me. I must be a similar age to RB and MT was a constant figure in the background of my childhood - like Princess Diana or Mr T . I don't agree with everything he says - as other people have pointed out, would half of this be written about a male public figure? - but the piece made for interesting reading compared to a lot of the claptrap that's been published this week.
It is a good article - thank you for posting it.
I didn't read it on the Guardian when I saw it the other day as the title annoyed me - sexist focus.
Thinking about it though, I'm sure the editors pulled that headline out of the article, which has a much broader subject.
"To me it comes across as having been written by someone who wants to show how clever he is (lots of big words and dramatic comparisons) rather than someone who genuinely writes well."
Empty drug-addled waffle.
RB hasn't taken drugs or ingested alcohol for about 7 years. he does a lot of work behind the scenes for rehab centres and drug rehab charities.
Say what you like about his writing or his views, but you cannot say he wrote this whilst "drug addled".
I really hate it when people who have had the guts and strength to change their lives round are still labelled as being on drugs.
It was waffle though, wasn't it chocs? Somehow it makes it worse that he was stone cold sober when he wrote it.
It makes some salient points, but it is a bit sixth form in its composition.
I would join with Russell Brand in wondering what kind of parent someone that dogmatic and inflexible would make. I think I'd think the same about a male public figure.
I think it reads like he talks tbh.
An interesting take on things.
Somehow it makes it worse that he was stone cold sober when he wrote it.
- this made me laugh. I disagree with you, but you made your point in a very witty way!
Actually I doubt MT did spend much time with her children while she was PM. In 1979 when she became PM her twins were 26!
Yes she was a working politician when they were young, but presumably didn't have to work the crazy hours she did later as PM. (But no, she doesn't seem like someone's mum).
There was an article in The Timestoday about this. Apparently Carol told her that she was a great leader but a rubbish mother (not exact quote but general gist). So I think RB is spot on if her kids said it too.
'To me it comes across as having been written by someone who wants to show how clever he is (lots of big words and dramatic comparisons) rather than someone who genuinely writes well'
Very well put CambridgeBlue. I thought a lot of it was misogynistic drivel but that's no real surprise from Russell Brand. Some of it was well-written but it was mostly self-consciously wacky and kooky and far too try-hard. Much like a lot of Caitlin Moran's writing actually - interesting that she linked to it on Twitter!
I am absolutely no fan of Thatcher and almost felt sick watching footage of the Falklands war and the miners' strike on the TV the other night but she didn't have get crucified for stuff that people would have tolerated much more easily had she been a man. Like her parenting skills in this article I don't think I have ever heard any whining or hand-wringing about the relationship between a man's job and his parenting skills ever. Not ever.
Thanks chocs I really don't like Russell Brand for lots of different reasons but I have to say that when he appeared before MPs talking about drugs he knew what he was talking about.
But his appearance let him down because he just can't let his image go and I think that damaged the message.
I'm not saying he should have worn a suit but less Jesus As A Rock God would have been good
Feel sorry for the children. Good point. I know some broadcasters and I do feel sorry for their children
They are mainly women. Guess if you want
YABBU to post this in AIBU.
YABU to copy and paste the entire article.
I personally prefer this line: If love is something you cherish, it is hard to glean much joy from death, even in one's enemies.
In real life he really is a good guy. Just because he is famous should not allow such judgements. I have known him for years and he isn't really any different to any other normal person. he think deeply about things and is happy to have people disagree with his views but would be very hurt to be referred to as "drug addled" after what he has been through.
It is not ghost written and it is splendidly waffley and wordy and just perfect coming from him. I do agree with most of what he says actually but it is a comment piece and not objective.
MT was an absolute monster and did a tremendous amount of harm in many ways during her term, the only reason she is getting the big funeral is because she is a woman. Put that in your feminist pipe and smoke it!
RB is a good bloke in RL, he is passionate about a lot of issues and does get off his arse and say and do things about it. I admire that in someone who could just fuck his way through LA and ignore the noise in his head.
One question, would you have wanted MT as your Mother?
Would that comment have been made if Thatcher was a man?
lazy, mysoginistic journalism. RB can definitely do better.
Would that comment have been made if Thatcher were a man? No
Would Thatcher be having what is essentially a State funeral if she were a man? No
I feel sorry for RBs parents
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