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To think that it's perfectly fine to be pleased someone is dead when they caused such a lot of harm?

(504 Posts)
LoopaDaLoopa Tue 09-Apr-13 09:43:58

So, all these people saying it is inappropriate to speak ill of the dead are all positive and nice about Pol Pot are they? Stalin? Hitler?

Just because someone dies does not make them a nice person.

And did you feel sorry for Saddam Hussain's family? Or did it not cross your mind?

Xenia Thu 18-Apr-13 19:30:13

Ah but you are assuming ascendancy, growth, money are desirables though aren't you? If you start fom the premise mother earth is better off if humans weren't on the planet (we destroy it) or secondly that happiness comes from sunshine and healthy food not the acquisition of money and constant buying of consumables then you don't need the UK in the ascendancy. If you do think growth and more of possessions is good then you can always move to areas where that growth might be. One of the talks I was monitoring today was about an international company. The UK is utterly flat and probably a lost market but they make more than enough from foreign markets that it doesn't matter.

ppeatfruit Mon 15-Apr-13 17:39:40

Well Xenia that's a very defeatist attitude that would not have been countenanced by your idol. (even though she was in at the commencement of it) grin

FasterStronger Mon 15-Apr-13 17:37:59

Yes, the more realistic we are, the longer we will resist the rebalancing.

grovel Mon 15-Apr-13 16:27:00

That, Xenia, is the sad truth. We will not be long-term winners from globalisation unless we face this very uncomfortable fact.

Xenia Mon 15-Apr-13 16:17:10

There is no reason the UK/US should be in the ascendancy forever, surely? The Romans had their empire. We had ours. They come and go and different parts of the planet take over.

ppeatfruit Mon 15-Apr-13 12:27:43

That's why I believe in self sufficiency as far is as is possible.

ppeatfruit Mon 15-Apr-13 12:25:27

LessMiss How can we really be competitive when we need far more money just to rent, god forbid BUY a flat than the people who live in shacks? IMO globalisation is leading to us needing many more immigrants to live in shacks and then they won't need such high wages.

LessMissAbs Mon 15-Apr-13 11:31:36

Totally off-topic, but we hired a car ("truck") and drove around Idaho, Washington State and Montana, and that's where I saw the tin shacks at the sides of the roads. Not just a few, loads of them, individually, all spread out. But definitely shacks - made up of odd bits of corrugated iron, not even made to "look nice" by being painted the same colour or anything, but real poverty. But when I've said this to American people, they've all denied they exist and said I must have been mistaken.

But then parts of the UK are third worldish too. The world is moving on, and I wonder if the UK is going to get left behind, because it isn't really competitive.

flaminghoopsaloohlah Mon 15-Apr-13 11:16:59

And don't even get me started on the potholes.

flaminghoopsaloohlah Mon 15-Apr-13 11:15:33

The poverty in America is shocking - truly truly shocking - first hand experience.

ppeatfruit Mon 15-Apr-13 09:14:04

No niceguy I said I visited the BIG APPLE, for the first time, you know the city that's named twice and held up as the best in the world, and BTW its not just superficial cleanliness in New York its the actual infrastructure, the way the roads are rotting away and the thick black grime that hangs off the beams in the subway. The taxi drivers were so stressed and unhappy they could hardly speak that's how living in New York is for some of the working classes. I somehow felt that they might secretly despise the successful.

I have stayed in Los Angeles and San Diego as well. Only San Diego seemed remotely wealthy outside of the shopping malls and rich ghettoes. Apart of course from the poverty just across the border in Mexico, I notice that LessMiss also mentioned the shacks at the sides of the road. Also DH has worked in the semi 3rd world redneck south.

They may love success but IMO its at the expense of a lot of very very poor. The friends we stayed with in Beverly Hills are very successful and wealthy and they were saying that they're almost the only ones among their friends who bother to pay the visas, taxes and decent wages for their (S.A) staff.

Xenia Sun 14-Apr-13 22:05:08

I said Scotland would not vote for independence which is what ROEG says so how is that accurate statement fantasy. We agree.

niceguy2 Sun 14-Apr-13 21:32:14

@ppeatfruit. Have you seen the size of America?? You visited a small fraction of the country and have decided it's third world and vile? Sure NYC isn't the cleanest of places but then I don't think London is either. Take a short train ride to somewhere like Westport CT. It's stunning there.

Besides which I never said that I want the UK to become a replica of the USA. I am under no illusions that America is perfect. But as I was saying I do admire the way they don't despise and sneer at success.

ReturnOfEmeraldGreen Sun 14-Apr-13 19:34:35

Scotland will not vote for independence. Thatcher is still dead. Fantasists remain fantasists.

Xenia Sun 14-Apr-13 16:03:28

Ah, my "we" - the Thatcher we perhaps....

Did someone object to my comment that surveys show a majority of the English want Scotland to cede from the Union and most Scots don't? It is simply a fact. However we do not get a say which is rather unfair.

ppeatfruit Sun 14-Apr-13 15:59:31

grin Less Some Scots seem to be very racist about the English which is ridiculous because we must be the one of the most 'mixed' populations in the world.

LessMissAbs Sun 14-Apr-13 13:54:06

LOL ppfruit, while agreeing with much of what niceguy writes, I also found the States a bit "third worldish" (it was the tin shacks at the sides of the road in some rural areas that did it for me) but most people don't seem to see it? Mind you, in Scotland, we're now so spoilt with brand new sports centres and facilities everywhere, I couldn't believe the third worldish standards of the ones in England when I've visited friends there! Sadly other features of life in Scotland have yet to catch up.

I think if Scotland became independent, I'd seriously consider leaving - I don't fancy being told I'm evil because I earn a decent salary and own a nice house (with a mortgage!). Or the State controlling my life. Or more likely paying for all the party in power's cronies to sit on their backsides twiddling their fingers in public sector made-up jobs.

Countries like Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc do seem to be getting something right. Similar tax levels to here (when you take all the taxes) we pay into account, but decent services in return for them.

ppeatfruit Sun 14-Apr-13 13:40:09

I'm glad you mentioned America niceguy I went to New York for the first time last year and if the 3rd world standard of its infrastructure (the subway made our underground look positively luxurious even before the modernisation , the rubbish piling in Times Square and the roads from Newark airport were vile)) is an example of low tax rates then give me higher taxes (fairly administered) any time. BTW DD said it was like that well before Obama was president before you blame him for it.

It's very odd; I heard an interview with an American who talked about being 'coerced' into paying for the new national health and for a country that calls itself Christian I was [shocked].

niceguy2 Sun 14-Apr-13 11:26:24

Lessmissabs, there is a great many people in this country who believe that the rich are only rich because they have trodden on the poor. These people hate those who have been successful (presumably because it reminds them that they have not been).

When I lived in America, one of the things I admired was that people were not jealous of someone else's success and wanted to emulate them, not tax them into oblivion. In short, the American dream.

Until we as a nation can accept that the rich are a necessary and very important part of the nation. That having people succeed is key to our future prosperity, our country will keep declining.

We cannot tax & spend our way to prosperity.

LessMissAbs Sun 14-Apr-13 10:57:17

The Financial Services Act 1986, which created the regime under which the recession occurred, was passed in 1986. 2012 saw a new Financial Services Act.

I'm Scottish, and I didn't find Xenia's remarks offensive, or at least not any more offensive than the repeated misleading posts that no-one in Scotland votes Conservative or supported Margaret Thatcher. I think theres plenty of virulent whingers and professional standard hard-done-by moaners from all over the UK, and in fact threads like this don't shed the UK in a particularly good light. There really is a very different prevailing attitude towards working and taking responsibility for yourself than in other Northern European countries, and its not surprising that we're now talking about a triple dip recession. In most of Northern Europe, the majority of people would describe themselves as middle class and then forget about it.

Did anyone see the programme last night on BBC2 about Margaret Thatcher? It also covered the regime in place in the UK before she came to power, and I was shocked to learn there was so much state control. It was all about how it suited Labour to keep the working class down just as much as the Conservatives, and class barriers and not trusting people to do things for themselves. Horrific. Also makes you wonder if the UK's brief period of prosperity is just a blip in its history, and its main trend is to be quite a miserable country, obsessed with class divisions and resentment of anyone who does well for themselves through hard work.

Thingiebob Sun 14-Apr-13 10:47:32

What MajorDivvy said.

niceguy2 Sun 14-Apr-13 10:37:12

this bedroom tax will i assure you be Cameron"s poll tax,make no mistake about that !

I doubt it. I believe that the silent majority support the so called 'bedroom tax' just in the same way that most support the overall benefits cap. But they are just not as vocal as those who do not.

What I find amazing about her supporters and todays' Tories is that they seem to forget about the billons of the taxpayers money that has gone into supporting the loss making banks.

No, not at all. But please do not forget under whose watch the banks crashed under. And that if the Tory policies were so bad that Labour had over a decade to make any changes which as you agree they did not. And if it was all the fat cat's fault, are you saying then that New Labour were so weak that they couldn't stand up to a few fat cats to do what was right? In over a decade?

Feenie Sun 14-Apr-13 10:37:08

Why would I report a comment which expresses a wish for a whole race of people to separate from England?

Hmm, now, I wonder which guidelines that breaks?

Although the point about letting people's stupidity stand for all to see is a good one.

shesariver Sun 14-Apr-13 10:27:12

Probably because there is so much anti-Scottish bile posted whenever there is any thread that mentions independence and Scotland, it gets tiring. Even MNHQ were very slow as I remember getting on top of it all.

BegoniaBampot Sun 14-Apr-13 09:17:34

why woud you report that? if someone says something that makes them look like a fool - let it stand.

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