Margaret Thatcher to get full ceremonial funeral - have they gone mad?

(211 Posts)
rowtunda Mon 08-Apr-13 14:31:43

Its bloody disgraceful - a tory/establishment decision that insults many. We should riot in the streets on the same day.

I fear becuase she had a film made about her everyone has forgetten what she actually did - including devastating whole communities - and now we are expected to stump up for her lavish funeral?

Bloody disgrace

(oh and she definietly wasn't a feminist icon either!)

PigletJohn Tue 09-Apr-13 20:22:09

the Scots have been offering to do that for years.

redlac Tue 09-Apr-13 20:15:53

Heck bring her up north and folks would do it for free (and bring their own shovels)

ubik Tue 09-Apr-13 20:14:23

Damn you compulsory competitive tendering!

<shakes fist at sky>

LineRunner Tue 09-Apr-13 20:09:41

£49.

ubik Tue 09-Apr-13 20:04:38

Well obviously the funeral should be opened up to private competition and the cheapest bid accepted.

I'd do it fir £50.

PigletJohn Tue 09-Apr-13 19:55:08

"it had been debated and agreed upon years ago"

Not by me.

Inertia Tue 09-Apr-13 19:51:49

Objecting in 2008 and objecting now are not mutually exclusive.
But as PigletJohn says, public objections are rarely taken into consideration. Doesn't mean we can't have an opinion now if our opinions were disregarded at the time.

LineRunner Tue 09-Apr-13 19:45:51

tiggy, there have been MN posts for years about opposition a state-sponsored funeral for Thatcher.

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 19:41:27

The first one Piglet - people have expressed shock and outrage (or in some cases just surprise) at a public funeral when in fact it had been debated and agreed upon years ago so I am under the 'mistaken' impression I guess that they didn't know about it before yesterday let alone make their objections known in 2008.

Yellowtip Tue 09-Apr-13 19:39:20

Is the fact that public money is being spent on this less reprehensible than the fact that public money was spent on the Kate and Will wedding? The royals can be pretty divisive as well.

yousankmybattleship Tue 09-Apr-13 19:20:24

I think very few people are advocating riots, but quite a few of of will protest. If her family had a quiet funeral only for people who knew her personally and wanted to share their grief then of course I would not protest, but the minute her funeral becomes a vast affair, attended by foreign heads of state and funded by public money it has been politicised and I therefore feel perfectly justified in expressing my displeasure. And no, I will not show respect because in my view she didn't earn it.

PigletJohn Tue 09-Apr-13 18:35:25

I don't understand your point, tiggy

Are you under the mistaken impression that those who disliked Thatcher and her policies (of whom there are many millions) did not start to express their opposition to a state-funded ceremonial funeral until yesterday?

Or are you perhaps under the mistaken impression that the common people were allowed to have a say in it?

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 13:02:44

There's nothing vile about objecting to money being spent on such things. I am not personally in favour of huge, state funerals (except for the monarch) and agree they are better as private occasions with a separate memorial for world dignitaries and others if they want to mark it.

BUT I am against any form of disruption to anyone's funeral no matter what other people thought of them. That is vile.

And I fail to see why the whole idea is more objectionable to some people now that it is actually happening than it was 5 years ago when it was agreed (and discussed and in all the papers)
Everyone knew this was planned all along so moaning about it now just seems like an excuse to be disrespectful since if anyone genuinely objected on principle then surely they would have voiced that objection at the correct time and had their protests at the time the last government signed it all off?

badtime Tue 09-Apr-13 12:58:34

I don't respect her.

badtime Tue 09-Apr-13 12:55:34

It is not a funeral, it is a state ceremony occasioned by a funeral. No-one would object to a private funeral.

How many people are advocating riots? What is 'vile' about suggesting there are better ways to spend money than celebrating the political legacy of such a divisive figure?

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 12:55:08

I will say this again - protests would not be about the funeral they would be about the cost and because people disagree with having the funeral as a public event.

And I'd say again: it is too late to moan about it now. It was agreed by the last Labour Government and it has been public knowledge for at least 5 years that she would get this type of funeral. If people really object, they should have protested or complained at the time it was all being discussed and agreed. To do so 5 years too late and after she has died is disrespectful

cuteboots Tue 09-Apr-13 12:49:17

The outpouring of vile comments on this post has really shocked me. Her family are grieving and we seem more concerned with venting our anger and rioting at her funeral? We may or may not have liked her views and what she stood for but show some respect people. Also are the current shower of shit we have in place doing a better job !Hmmmmm lets think about that one then.

badtime Tue 09-Apr-13 12:39:47

There is never an excuse for being disrespectful at someone's funeral

As I have said before, the issue is not with the funeral - a private event would be entirley different. A publically-funded 'ceremonial funeral' is more than a funeral. It is a public event. By having a public event where none is needed, this is inviting public participation.

You concede that it is an 'important occasion' - I assume you don't just mean for the friends and family of the deceased? So you agree that it is more than a funeral.

I will say this again - protests would not be about the funeral they would be about the cost and because people disagree with having the funeral as a public event.

And rather than just go on the stories of the strikes that caused power cuts etc, read social policy books as to why the strikes were taking place. Ask why it has taken so long to have maternity and paternity rights in the UK and all the other possible legislation that was ignored because “society didn't exist, just individuals“.

It isn't about being disrespectful at someone's funeral, it is a protest against public money funding it. There were parties around the country last night and police officers were injured trying to break them up, if they want a re-run of the riots then they are doing everything that they need to, to ensure this happens. Do I want her paid as little respect as the dying and dead at Hillsborough? I'm not sure, tbh.

MidniteScribbler Tue 09-Apr-13 12:16:08

badtime, why do you feel that there is any excuse to be disrespectful? If you don't agree with it, then don't go. There is never an excuse for being disrespectful at someone's funeral.

There are many things that are passed by governments that I don't agree with. The arguments are done, both sides present their point of view, and decisions are made. Some I agree with, others I don't. I have never voted for the current ruling political party in my country, and never will. But in a democracy, you don't always get what you want. I have met the current PM, who is someone I don't agree with most of their politics and stances on most issues, but I still respected the office and the person.

A bunch of protesters disrupting important occasions will rarely get any respect for their position or for themselves.

Inertia Tue 09-Apr-13 12:15:12

If her family want her to have a dignified ceremony where only people who loved her are present, then it's very simple. They can pay for her to have a private funeral with private security and still invite whichever heads of state they like.

If the family agree to her having a public funeral, paid for by taxpayers and with taxpayer-funded police and armed forces security, then it becomes an issue about which the public are entitled to an opinion.

rememberthefallout Tue 09-Apr-13 12:13:25

Well, if this thread is reflective of public opinion, she was certainly a very divisive figure. I'm not against ceremonial funerals. I just think it's unwise to hold one for a person who can elicit so much bad feeling even after so many years. And eight million is a modest figure. What will it cost in terms of policing and security? I'm not sure BTW if we should respect people for the courage of their convictions. I'd rather admire someone for both.

tiggytape Tue 09-Apr-13 12:09:59

badtime - going from state to ceremonial means it has been toned down in fact and a lot of that is because of the family's wishes. What was planned was far grander (laying in state and a military plane fly by). The fact it will be state funded and a national occasion is something they had little say in and something that was decided long ago. It had monarchy approval and was signed off - it was set in stone by Gordon Brown.

I remember it being discussed and I remember some very cross news articles dating back from that time but I don't remember any public protest or petition or letters of complaint - nothing like that at all. So if people didn't know about it or didn't object when it was finalised years ago, they are perfectly entitled to still be against it now but it never justifies disrupting the funeral itself.

And as for the money - the funeral plans were agreed 2008 - 2011 at the height of the recession, credit crunch and bank crisis so again if austerity is the objection, that would have been a valid point to raise then. It is too late now.

Inertia Tue 09-Apr-13 12:06:00

I know that it is virtually impossible to achieve more than 50 % of votes in an election. I included the comment about votes in response to the posts above which implied that the fact that she won three elections suggested most people were in favour of her being prime minister. My point is (and it applies to pretty much every government, including the present one ) that more people voted against her than in favour of her, regardless of the fact that no single other party won more votes individually.

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