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To think that Lady Thatcher was a great feminist icon

(96 Posts)
kitty1976 Mon 08-Apr-13 14:07:26

Sure some people don't like her but she was a great example of what can be achieved with determination in the very male dominated world of politics.

halcyondays Tue 09-Apr-13 21:02:17

Yabu

babyradio Tue 09-Apr-13 20:35:47

The only thing she taught me is that to be successful in a 'mans world' you have to behave like a man. Being a woman does NOT make you a feminist.

Someone said to me yesterday that "the real iron ladies are all the women who kept their homes and families together when their men lost their jobs and their hope". Not sure if it's their own words or they read it somewhere but up here in the North the mood is fairly unified really.

The 'grocers daughter' angle is rhetoric, too. Her family were not poor, and she married a rich man who supported her. Her Oxford cronies are the reason she got into politics.

Vev Tue 09-Apr-13 19:54:12

YABVU. She was an icon of nothing.

Blistory Tue 09-Apr-13 19:40:30

I consider her a feminist icon. Not a feminist but a strong woman who had to prove her worth simply because she was a woman in a man's world.

As a woman, regardless of her politics, she showed me that it was normal for a woman to have the top job, to be strong, to be principled, to be listened to, to be influential, to be respected both domestically and on the world stage.

She had to earn the respect that was so readily handed to her male counterparts. She had to be better than them. She trod a lonely path at times and didn't let it diminish her or her beliefs.

In achieving what she did, she gave me a belief in what women were truly capable of, despite the odds.

flatpackhamster Tue 09-Apr-13 18:57:04

WilsonFrickett

Right. Well, I would disagree she showed men that a woman could do a job better than a man, because I think she was a terrible PM. That has nothing to do with her gender however, she was simply a terrible PM IMO.

That is your opinion, of course. But the point still stands. Suddenly, men no longer said 'A woman couldn't do that job' - because she could, and did. I recognise that a significant minority of the population don't like her but it should be possible to object to someone's politics and yet recognise their ability. I loathe Gordon Brown. I think the man's a monster. But I can admire his political ability even if I think his treatment of people was vile and is politics monstrous.

And the fact people no longer said 'a woman couldn't be PM' still doesn't make her a feminist icon.

I think that points to a problem with the exclusivity of feminism, since it is so socialist in its construct that it is ideologically incapable of recognising her ability. She overcame relentless sexism and constant low-grade abuse about her common roots from wealthy, privileged men. She changed people's perceptions about what a woman could do.

WilsonFrickett Tue 09-Apr-13 17:24:33

WilsonFrickett
Maybe you could clarify your point then flatpack?

Not only did she show women that there was no barrier to the top job in the country, she also showed men that a woman could do the job better than a man. The change of thinking that she engendered is twofold. Men no longer said 'A woman couldn't be Prime Minister'.

Right. Well, I would disagree she showed men that a woman could do a job better than a man, because I think she was a terrible PM. That has nothing to do with her gender however, she was simply a terrible PM IMO.

And the fact people no longer said 'a woman couldn't be PM' still doesn't make her a feminist icon.

flatpackhamster Tue 09-Apr-13 11:33:03

TeWiSavesTheDay

I suppose you could argue that just being there showed that it was possible for women, but I think that's a pretty weak argument.

The Australian PM disagrees with you. From The Telegraph:

Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard said she "changed history for women".

She said: “As a woman, I am admiring of her achievements becoming the first woman to lead the United Kingdom, the first female prime minister there. Many around the world will be reflecting upon her life and times today, as is appropriate with the loss of such a significant figure.

"For women around the world, they will be reflecting on the loss of a woman who showed a new way forward for women and a way into leadership."

She certainly made it no easier for other women to follow in her footsteps. In some ways I think she may have made it harder.

Well, we could count the number of female leaders before she came to power, and the number after, and see whether that stacks up. Who should we get to do the counting? Merkel? Gillard? There's a list on Wikipedia of female heads of state. Putting aside the appointed (non-elected)ones ISTM that the overwhelming majority of them came to power after MT.

On that basis alone it's hard to argue that she made it harder.

WoTmania Tue 09-Apr-13 11:21:21

YABU - she was not a feminist, and definitely not a feminist icon.

TeWiSavesTheDay Tue 09-Apr-13 11:12:50

She was the first PM with a vagina. Not a feminist.

I suppose you could argue that just being there showed that it was possible for women, but I think that's a pretty weak argument.

She certainly made it no easier for other women to follow in her footsteps. In some ways I think she may have made it harder.

thermalsinapril Tue 09-Apr-13 11:06:30

YABU. Being a woman does not make someone a feminist.

flatpackhamster Tue 09-Apr-13 09:56:41

WilsonFrickett
Maybe you could clarify your point then flatpack?

Not only did she show women that there was no barrier to the top job in the country, she also showed men that a woman could do the job better than a man. The change of thinking that she engendered is twofold. Men no longer said 'A woman couldn't be Prime Minister'.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 08-Apr-13 19:06:26

YABU and obviously don't know very much about her.

WilsonFrickett Mon 08-Apr-13 19:01:28

Maybe you could clarify your point then flatpack?

motherinferior Mon 08-Apr-13 18:58:53

Apparently she told the Liverpool Daily Post in 1974; I don't have the original quote but the Washington Post is pretty reputable.

LineRunner Mon 08-Apr-13 18:51:13

She got stabbed in the back in the end by the men in her Party, when she was told to pull out of the leadership race. She didn't see it coming. Delusions of grandeur to the bitter finale.

flatpackhamster Mon 08-Apr-13 18:48:29

WilsonFrickett

So is feminism about being superior to men then flatpack?

Way to miss the point.

Waspie

YABVU. She is the antithesis of a feminist. She set the movement back by about 20 years. During the height of the unemployment crisis she told women not to work in order to leave jobs for men shock

Really? Can you track down the quote for me?

KJ007 Mon 08-Apr-13 18:33:51

Or feminism for that matter...

KJ007 Mon 08-Apr-13 18:30:39

Yes as you obviously know nothing about her, her policies or her politics. Try posting about something you have a clue about.

fluffiphlox Mon 08-Apr-13 17:26:45

Name one thing she did for women...

Thatcher, a feminist? Errrr no.

Mumcentreplus Mon 08-Apr-13 17:17:59

Sorry NO...

motherinferior Mon 08-Apr-13 17:02:48

Yes. The one and only good thing about Thatcher Always Sticking By Her 'Principles' was that you knew what to oppose.

Waspie Mon 08-Apr-13 16:59:26

YABVU. She is the antithesis of a feminist. She set the movement back by about 20 years. During the height of the unemployment crisis she told women not to work in order to leave jobs for men shock

Having said that she is one reason why I became such a staunch feminist, and have a hatred of discrimination and bullying in any form: I wanted to be the polar opposite of her.

WilsonFrickett Mon 08-Apr-13 16:58:29

So is feminism about being superior to men then flatpack?

Scrazy Mon 08-Apr-13 16:52:13

YABU, Iirc the CSA was after her time but I'm sure she wouldn't have stopped it and was involved in the planning. It cost the country more to administer than it collected of 'feckless fathers', tried to stigmatise a generation of children living with single parents (mainly mothers), damaged families and probably scared said 'feckless fathers' of having anything to do with their children.

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