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To think fertility is a completely unfair lottery

(119 Posts)
Dancingthroughthefire Thu 04-Apr-13 22:19:31

There's philpott breeding left right and centre and being the most horrific parent.

And then there's us, struggling to conceive. Been told dh is basically infertile and we will likely never conceive naturally.

Where is the justice? I know it is just luck and it shouldn't make me so angry but it's so unfair.

seeminglyso Sun 07-Apr-13 20:08:57

PacificDogwood what 'hoops' are they? a CRB check, employment checks?

http://www.communitycare.co.uk/articles/23/10/2001/33705/brighton-and-hove-tightens-adoption-procedures-after-couple-convicted-of-cruelty.htm

In 2001 a report looking into this horrific murder suggested assessments be more rigorous ..what a shame the conservatives want to make it tantamount to a tick box check list...back to more disruptions and more children who are subsequently even more difficult to place.

Having to understand how neglect impacts brain development, look up attachment theory, developmental trauma, ...I could go on.....

One in ten adoptions disrupt...unrealistic expectations a lot of the time...the 'hoops' are very necessary. Children are not taken from their birth family for no reason and placing them in a home that does not plan to therapeutically parent them is tragic.

nokidshere Sat 06-Apr-13 12:57:12

Infertility stinks, but, as others have said already, so do lot of other aspects of life.

When I started tcc at the age of 22 I worked for SS. I used to consider it massively unfair that the parents I worked with could seemingly pop a child out at a moments notice and I - who was so much better then them and so much more deserving - couldn't. How arrogant and unfair it was of me to feel like that though? I used to think I was "lucky" that I couldn't get pregnant - much luckier than those who could get pregnant but were unable to carry to term. Because they were suffering more than me.

Then I fell pregnant naturally at 39, and again at 41 and realised how much infertility had warped my view of other peoples fertility.

I look around me now and feel insanely grateful for my life. We lost 3 friends to cancer in the last 2 years - all far too young with young families, Another friend has two beautiful boys who were healthy and full of life - and they both got leukemia in primary school years. Another friend is having treatment for cancer as I type. Yet another set of friends have just gone through the very tough adoption process - its just as harrowing as infertility.

Life is unfair. But we cant do anything but get on with it. Our ability to cope is what makes or breaks us and the only person who can have an effect on the outcome is ourselves. But I dont belittle peoples faith, if that is what helps them cope then its no-one elses business - even if you dont believe in god.

maddening Sat 06-Apr-13 12:41:48

I think life in general is an unfair lottery - it could be any combination of health/life problems that leaves you feeling you got the shitty end of the stick.

At least there are options of treatments and adoptions - some people have situations with no options - not that it makes it fair, it doesn't and it is v painful. I don't think fairness comes in to it at all.

I don't think that dwelling on these feelings and holding bitterness towards people who conceive is going to do you any good - have you tried counselling? Imo it is similar to the grief of bereavement - the baby the never was but in your mind's eye he/she is very real and every time you aren't pg is like a bereavement - which is why I would seek out counselling as you don't need to be consumed by this - this shouldn't be what defines you and your very being.

DolomitesDonkey Sat 06-Apr-13 12:32:35

YANBU. confused I remember when I was struggling and Pete docherty managed to impregnate someone when they were both in rehab. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

MrsDeVere Sat 06-Apr-13 12:27:59

Of course you should have to jump through hoops to adopt children.

They should be the right hoops for the right reasons but adopting a child should never be 'easy'.

Would you want one of your children to be 'easily adopted' if something happened to you?

You would want them going to a family who had been thoroughly tested wouldn't you?

I know I would.

I would want the adoption to be for the benefit of my child. Not to make another family happy. That is a wonderful side benefit.

infamouspoo Sat 06-Apr-13 09:23:06

' it's just that infertility has such a huge effect on all other aspects of life, its consequences are so much bigger than other physical 'flukes'. '

Really? Like not being able to walk or talk? Like being severely disabled? I know which I'd pick

infamouspoo Sat 06-Apr-13 09:21:59

Life is unfair. One glance at the news tells us that. There's no divine plan, no good people get good things, no do your best and you get rewarded.
All you can do is find a bit of happiness in the chaos/

expatinscotland Sat 06-Apr-13 00:08:54

I always do, Pacific. I never knew, either, till later, that who was KristinaM had lost her son. She did not deserve that anymore than any child deserves a death from cancer.

Cruel, OP, that is what most of life is. If you want to have a shot at contentment, best leave any ideas of fairness behind, because in addition to being utter tosh they will leave you wasting time on anger.

orangebuccaneer Fri 05-Apr-13 23:47:23

You're right OP it is a lottery. Like so many things in life, it's just that infertility has such a huge effect on all other aspects of life, its consequences are so much bigger than other physical 'flukes'.

With respect to the God question, I actually find that things like this increase my faith in a God, otherwise I can't rationalise them. If this world is all there is, then the thought of what some people (particularly children) go through, is too tough to take. Believing in a God means I know that this world is not all there is: that it is fallen, that it is flawed, but that one day everything will be made right.

Well obviously it was in my thoughts considering most of my siblings have been adopted!

Lueji Fri 05-Apr-13 23:30:37

I found this thread too biased towards the "rights" of having children.

And really don't like thinking of adopted children only as going to make a couple happy.
It might have been in your thoughts (was it, really?) but not in your words.

^"NO child asks to be born.
Which is why we have the frigging duty to make their lives as good as possible.
"^

I think that's what has riled me so much in the past few days, all the talk of what would these kids have become with parents like theirs. sad They were children, innocent bloody kids.

TigerseyeMum Fri 05-Apr-13 23:23:52

Not only is fertility unfair but fertility treatment is also an unfair lottery, ask found out to my cost at the over the hill age of 37.

My following sentence was "obviously that isn't the case everytime though".

Unfortunately I know this as well which is the reason my DB was left in a house on fire...

I would argue against no one wanting a child in those circumstances though as I have 3 other brothers that would fit that along with numerous SN/SEN including one with needs so severe he will never walk or talk. I suppose they have been extremely lucky in finding a home though.

I don't know what happened to the rest of them though so I guess they could have really bad lives and I wouldn't know.

NO child asks to be born.
Which is why we have the frigging duty to make their lives as good as possible.

The Philpotts kids are just that - kids. Not their fault. sad

Yes, adoption works both ways.
What's your point, Lueju?

I wish Philpott did not get quite as much attention.
Punishment, yes; but not attention.

At the end of the day it's down to biology: the selfish gene wants to procreate at all cost.
Biology does not care whether you are a deserving parent or not.

And unfairness in the greater scheme of things ie poverty and starvation is NOT as random as fertility/infertility, let's face it.
Which side of the poverty/affluence divide you are born on, that's random, but not what creates these differences in the first place.

ReallyTired Fri 05-Apr-13 23:19:01

"The comfort I find in this particular subject is that a lot of the children from families like those mentioned end up making other people happy as adoptive children."

Nope, the adoption/ care system in this country is far too slow. Most of these children spend a childhood being passed from foster home to foster home. Social services are too slow to remove the chidlren and give the parents multiple chances to improve. It is easy to find adoptive parents for a cute baby, but no one wants a three year old with severe behavioural issues (caused by abusive and attachment issues).

Often children languish in care because social workers are looking for the perfect match of adoptive parents.

Lueji Of course I wasn't including the childrens happiness. hmm

I'm totally fine. smile I grew up with my Grandmother, who is the most lovely caring woman I have ever met.

It's just a touchy subject because it feels like people are wishing you weren't born to make them feel better. Which is probably wrong it's just I have seen so many opinions that lean that way.

Expat It is so true, awful things happen to people for no reason at all and sometimes to people who seem the most undeserving of such utter bad luck.

My GM that I was speaking of, lost both her Son (my Dad) and her DH in 2 separate horrific accidents in the space of a year, life really isn't fair at all.

Lueji Fri 05-Apr-13 23:15:25

Basically, it's not unfair on YOU that such parents can have children, but unfair that children are born in such families.

FGS.

Lueji Fri 05-Apr-13 23:14:26

I'm sure there must be lots of people in 3rd world countries with no food or medicine thinking along the same lines.

Life is not about fairness.

The comfort I find in this particular subject is that a lot of the children from families like those mentioned end up making other people happy as adoptive children.
Really?
How about finding comfort in that a lot of such children end up BEING happy with adoptive parents?

me, reduced me.

Feck, I cannot type

expat, you've just reduced my to tears.
It was an honour.
And a privilege.

I sometimes wish I could've met her...

I think of you often.
I hope you can find some distraction in your other children xx.

ReallyTired Fri 05-Apr-13 23:11:44

I feel it is desperately unfair that the Philpot children, baby P and countless others never got to reach adulthood, yet alone have children. Ofcourse its terrible when a child dies of natural causes, but a healthy child dying at the hands of their parents/ caregivers is an unforgivable breech of trust.

It is desperately unfair that certain people are able to procreate and abuse huge numbers of children when there are other people who are infertile.

Prehaps there is an arguement for sterilising the like of Mick Philpot, but complusory sterilisation is far worse than the problems it solves.

expatinscotland Fri 05-Apr-13 23:08:30

There were friends with us when our daughter died. One is a woman whose only child was born still. I cannot think of a person more deserving of being a mother, she is far worthier than I and many others. Her love was so great, she was able to set aside her grief to be there with us, to see our daughter out of this life.

Besides her was the one of another couple who were there. 3 years they struggled with infertility and treatments, to have a son. A beautiful, cherished son. When he was 11 months old, he was diagnosed with untreatable brain cancer. He died in their bed, age 19 months. Now despite IVF they have been unable to conceive again.

Bad shit happens to good people all the time, every day, because that is life.

There is NO such thing as fairness. Life just is.

Am I sorry for that? Every day. Every day, so many of us lose, lose, lose.

We live on because, well, there is only one alternative, and it's not for us at present, for whatever reason.

But it's not exclusive to infertility. It just is what it is.

And may I express my thanks to Pacific for being there. smile

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