ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
To ask for a list of jobs that mean that teachers have never had it so good and should stop complaining?(153 Posts)
I thought I'd try and equal the number of threads about the Philpots with ones about teaching?
Why oh why does everyone have to have an opinion on teaching? <wails> Why is it ok to say 'well if you don't like it, get another job?' Don't people want teachers to teach their children or is everyone planning on home edding?
One argument is that there are other jobs out there that are just as shit. Maybe we could just list the jobs that have all of the following:
A similar level of unrelenting pressure
National expectation & judgement of results
Responsibility for future success of the next generation
Constant derision from service users ie parents/ public
Systematic devaluing of the profession by their employer ie government
Similar annual hours
Same post-graduate qualification level
Then all the teachers can say yes, they are shit jobs too. And all the other people can be pleased that the teachers have acknowledged they don't have the only shit job in the world and theirs is just one of them.
Jobs have to fit all of the above criteria or they don't count.
There are many jobs out there are far worse than teaching. Audit is one of them (long hours, no overtime, hostile working environment at most clients, lots of travel which means driving all the time and huge pressure to deliver).
Anyway, I think the NUT conference had some great ideas. I would like to see the smaller class sizes implemented. At the private school I attended we rarely had more than 16 in a class. When we did I noticed a difference in the amount I learnt. This was in part because the class had more variance in ability but also it was harder for a teacher to control us.
I do think teachers have an awful time with discipline. My DD is at daycare and I like to think I am working with them all the time to iron out any misbehaviour. When she starts school it will be the same and the teacher will be backed up at home. Sadly this isn't the case and I often see some threads on here and just feel so sorry for the teacher.
Try working in law in the private sector.
Everyone assumes you're on a huge whack pay-wise when actually, you earn less than the average teacher.
SSP and unpaid completely for the first three days.
Verbal/physical abuse from clients who then lodge complaints with the ombudsman, too many of those and the job is at risk.
Extra hours for no extra pay.
No payrise in five years.
Legal aid constantly being snatched back and back resulting in firms being pushed into precarious financial positions. Mass redundancies/employees forced onto part time hours.
This is getting a bit monty python Four Yorkshiremen now!
We should want improvements for all of these professions not for teachers to shut the fuck up because they are not the only ones who have it bad.
But then it would be impossible to do most of them.
If you teach people trot out all this
bollocks stuff to annoy you, I am sure of it. I work in a college.it's a 9 - 5 day and we don't get college holidays. There is an annual leave system as in any workplace with the additional constraint that time off cannot be booked during term time. People who know this still "joke" at with me about part timers, sitting on my bum for 13 weeks while some of us have to work etc. I can actually see them looking for a reaction. I've given up now bit when i used to correct them they'd quickly say "oh we don't mean you DrC!" What do they gain from this other than the satisfaction of proving that teachers are moaners, no humour etc?
You know what teachers aren't more maligned than anyone else
Every one of the other jobs mentioned here gets comments
I agree its tiresome to hear rot about your job, just smile, wave and ignore
Teachers get drawn in to these threads.
I stop posting once we have been around the circle once or twice or I think that posters are on a wind up (usually once they start trotting out the stereotypical views of some of the papers)
They get drawn in because they are so passionate about their jobs and their students and sick of all the negativity. It's hard not to when you give your heart and soul to something.
Well, I for one think that teaching gives me the chance to use my initiative, my organisational skills, my interpersonal skills, etc, etc. I'm not complaining.
There are so many jobs that are worse than this. What about the guy who stands on the roundabout in the rain with a Domino's Pizza sandwich board, wearing some stupid costume? He's probably got a degree, and has no idea what his career progression will be......
social workers are seen as only there to take away children, by some people. i think they have that worse than teachers.
teachers get long holidays... ok so there is a lot of sleep to be caught up on after the weekly hours in term time...(55 hrs per week) and work to be done in the holiday, but you get to choose when you do that. that is one of the plus points of teaching.
I teach children with emotional and behavioural difficulties. I am regularly spat on, kicked, slapped and sworn at.
This is in a mainstream school. Most are 5-7 years old.
To keep my contract I had to accept this role. I do not enjoy it. I feel abused most days. I was told by the Ed Pysch that these children are too poor in their behaviour for special school.
Right now, I'd do anything else.
Oh dear. 'Unrelenting pressure'? Have you ever worked in a corporate environment at quarter end or on a business critical M&A transaction?
And 'annual hours'. Not sure what that is meant to mean. Get the fact that you don't work 9-3 or anything but not sure you are exactly expected to do what I would describe as a high number of hours. In my role I am in the office a min of 50 hours per week then read and deal with emails, do conference calls etc at home at evenings and weekends.
What I will give you is the Daily Mail-esque pressure and criticism you lot face from the general public. Pressure from parents is fair enough - the rest of us face pressure from our clients, share holders etc.
I'm a teacher. my job is hard sometimes. It's certainly not the worst job in the world. I could list a number of other jobs I wouldn't want to do. I wish people wouldn't keep perpetuating the idea that we're moany bastards that don't know how good we've got it - the government and the media do a good enough job of painting us in a bad light, we don't need people doing it from the inside too.
"Oh dear. 'Unrelenting pressure'? Have you ever worked in a corporate environment at quarter end or on a business critical M&A transaction?"
So your "unrelenting pressure" happens at quarter's end? that is not very "unrelenting"
"Get the fact that you don't work 9-3 or anything but not sure you are exactly expected to do what I would describe as a high number of hours."
So what do you mean by a "high number of hours"?
"What I will give you is the Daily Mail-esque pressure and criticism you lot face from the general public."
Decent of you
"Pressure from parents is fair enough - the rest of us face pressure from our clients, share holders etc."
you mean like pupils, parents, management, senior management, governors, LEA, Ofsted, DfE. etc. Different names same things.
I don't claim that the job doesn't have its perks, and I don't calim that its the hardest job in the world.
But if you are going to criticise the very least you could do is get the facts right.
I do think teaching is now better paid than it ever was before - my parents were both teachers during the Thatcher years and we live on a council estate and wre skint all the time.
I am a teacher and I love my job. It is stressful and yes, we do have some different pressures to other jobs, but we have AMAZING holidays and decent pay. I don't think we have it any worse than a lot of other jobs. I don't care if people complain about our holidays - we knew what the holidays we when we started out just like everyone else does, we don't choose them , they are just an added bonus to a wonderful job!
I hope some of the teachers on here have realised that other jobs have serious downsides too. The fact is that the employment market is shit so no-one has many options at the moment do they?
All of the professions are getting hammering by this government teachers are not alone.
Boney - not sure which facts you think I have got wrong. On the 'pressure' front, I guess you are right that one of my examples was a poor one. However, my point remains that lots of professional jobs are pressured - in fact that's partly why they are professional, requiring years of study and qualifications. I think it is really rather naive to suggest that teachers have it worse than doctors, lawyers or anyone else.
In terms of the scrutiny from parents, management, pupils etc. really? You really think that folks in other jobs don't have pressure coming at them from a miriad of sources? Everyone has management (and senior management as you list that separately!), clients, partners, professional bodies and a host of other equivalents to worry about. Again, pretty naive to suggest teachers are worse off.
As for your question on hours. In my role a bare minimum working week includes 45 hours in the office, checking and responding to emails morning and evening before and after work and at weekends and probably a couple of 'out of hours' conference calls. On top of that would be travel for work away from home and long hours at particular times (like quarter end or closing a deal). That's pretty average in my line of work. DH in his profession works I'd say 60-70 hours per week minimum. None of my teacher friends work anything like those kind of hours - prob an average of 9-5. I get that you work outside of teaching time but seriously you think you work 'long' hours?
I do honestly believe that lots of teachers have no idea of how tough it is to work outside the sphere of education (a great many have zero experience in 'the real world' of work). It is bloody hard as nails, the hours can be brutal and the pressure crushing. Teachers have pressures but so do we all and the 'poor us' approach is really rather wearing.
Tough jobs surveys:
4. Construction workers
5. Top managerial positions.
1. Commercial air pilot
2. Public relations officer
3. Corporate executives
1. *Recruitment consultants
*because at time of survey the sector was contracting
**"the repetitive and unchallenging nature of their job combined with low wages and lack of control in their careers meant that librarians report more instances of work-related stress than workers in any other sector -- 1 in 3 to be precise."
1. Glad to have a job.
2. I'll become a postie if I lose it.
Toad adds that DW was a teacher and found it stressful but (here he peers cautiously round) DW finds everything stressful and is inclined to comment that in his experience a good many teachers are similar.
Teachers do realise that we have lots of bonuses to our job otherwise we would not be doing it. As a teacher I work far in excess of the 60-70 hour workloads mentioned here and know many of my colleagues do to . However that is more than compensated by the fact that I get flexibility over when we do the work and I get work free holidays totalling 13 weeks . Far from being the toughest job in the world I think I am on to a good thing which is why , for the foreseeable future, I am staying put.
I do wish people would stop trotting out the stereotype that teachers are always overworked, stressed and always moaning . That is not me and I would struggle to name the teachers I know who fit that stereotype. To be honest we are too busy planning the next holiday to waste time moaning .
You are giving your opinions as facts.
"In terms of the scrutiny from parents, management, pupils etc. really? You really think that folks in other jobs don't have pressure coming at them from a miriad of sources?.."
I know that other professions have scrutiny from many sources, why do you believe that teachers don't?
"but seriously you think you work 'long' hours?"
I used to work 12 hr shifts, I and many other teachers do.
"a great many have zero experience in 'the real world' of work"
And we end on a stereotype, Do you know this for certain? Is this really a fact? or is just another ism from the likes of the daily mail?
Next you will be saying those that can do etc.
Dh loves teaching. The actual contact with kids during lessons and the before/after school clubs/tutorials/revision groups he runs. He doesn't mind the marking or planning but does object to the having to record every tiny detail and constant scrutiny from outside agencies.
He works significantly more hours than he did in his previous job (by that I don't just mean in term time, I mean counting up the hours he does/did annually), for which he was paid twice as much. He did have stress/pressure in that role too but was permitted to make his own choices re how he did his job/used his time, which is just not possible now.
If anyone asks, his first response is that he does it for the kids, for that lightbulb moment when they just 'get it' for the first time and understand what Sir's been waffling on about. If pressed, he'll say it's not a career choice he could recommend.
As a career, him teaching puts more strain on our relationship/I get to spend less time with him than I did when he was in his previous job when he was out of the country every other week
To actually respond to the thread...
I work for a charity. Apparently people who work for charities should be happy with crap pay because that's their vocation Our staff in direct contact with service users have to be counsellors/teachers/social workers/many other things beside. Ok they don't have to be massively academically qualified but many are, and are paid less than 20k for a 37.5 hour week, with antisocial hours an added perk. But hey, that's what working for a charity's about right?
Again though we stay for the moment that someone turns their life around, that's what makes it worthwhile.
doodledooo Totally agree with you regarding charity work.
WRT pressure. When happens if a teacher doesn't meet their targets? In my field if you don't meet your targets you are looking for another job pronto. Added to that we are put on a curve so even if I meet my targets I might be classified as in the bottom 20% or even 40%. If you are in the bottom 20% you need to find a job ASAP before they fire you and if you are in the next group up you carefully consider your options because your pay raise will be zero and you are not eligble for a bonus.
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