Sick of having to be Politically Correct over nearly everything(586 Posts)
Dont want to cause some big debate but is anyone else on here getting sick to the back teeth of having to watch their p's and q's through fear of offending every tom, dick and harry.
Thanks MN for deleting that post
Seems like the people who fume about PC gorn mad the most (IME) are white, middle class, hetrosexul men. Outraged that after centuries of basically doing what the fuck they like, someone is challenging them.
Because that is what it boils down to. When people say 'well you can't say anything nowdays can you?'
and you ask
'why, what will happen if you say P* in the pub?'
They won't get arrested, they won't get fined, what might happen is that someone will say 'steady the bus there Bob old man, not quite the thing these days eh?'
OMG the world is going to end
YABU. So-called political correctness is just politeness and consideration.
Even more conscientious then that they took a case of potential racism so seriously.
seeker that was many years ago and it was when you could be hauled into the office at the drop of a hat, they didn't like your face or whatever. It was a bit like 'the Office' quite a few power trips going on there. Also it wasn't a multi national concern or public sector so they kinda made their own procs/rules up.
I think these days they would have to jump through a few more hoops to bring anything to that stage and follow more procs. etc but having said that l till recently worked in the NHS for many years and there were still a few power mad middle managers taking the law into their own hands and overstepping the mark there and dragging people into offices unofficially for bollockings etc.
He was actually - very funny - also he would with endless patience and enthusiasm explain anything you wanted to know about his religion , why he wore certain things, why he wasn't allowed to use after shave (he made his own based on orange oil and used to bring us little bottles in and it was lovely) - all the rules about having more than one wife or not and how the first wife and her family had to agree to it from the outset and so on and so forth.
I do wonder if a lot of racism (or any ism for that matter) is just based on pure ignorance/fear of the unknown , because he seemed to do a lot for office harmony by just talking to people, educating them l suppose in this way. Almost as if , even a few that were quite bigoted and 'us and them' to start with , as they learnt more and more from Yusaf and became friends with him they would become much more open minded to and mingle more freely with not only him but other people from other cultures whom they would have previously avoided/been suspicious of/uncomfortable with or whatever.
I remember smiling to myself one day when one such former office bigot - a self confessed one at that, always coming out with generalisations as to why he didn't like 'them' etc came in one day (open plan with no designated seating) and given a choice of many empty seats plonked himself in an empty seat imbetween a young lady wearing a full cover burkha(sp) and Yusaf and said 'Alright,how are you?' and proceeded to chat to both his chosen neighbours as if it was the most natural thing in the world.
Which of course it was.
Eldritch yes, that the only problem is the people its directed at/those taking offence on their behalf and if they'd just 'laugh' along then everything would be fine.
As though 'jokes' are the only problem.
Me too, Eldritch. I think they spend so much of their time fuming and muttering to themselves about people thinking they are arseholes for calling an Asian person a p*ki or whatever, that they actually don't pay any attention to the reality around him.
My Aunt used to date a man who constantly (bizarrely, pointlessly) bemoaned the fact that 'n*gger brown' wasn't a paint colour anymore (yes, I know. WTAF?!). Yet you should've heard the vitriol my folks got for telling him to STFU or that I got when, in my teens, I started shutting him down by asking him what shade it was, exactly, seeing as black people aren't one universal colour. God, I hated that fucker. Funnily enough, he didn't bring his paint complaint up to the black heart surgeon who saved his life
What a very conscientious firm you must have worked for, sudaname. I've never heard of a disciplinary hearing happening under circumstqnces of like that. Still, it's a good thing that if it had been a racist incident, there was a procedure in place so that Yousef couldn't be coerced into stopping the process by saying that the incident hadn't happened after all. Which was a frequent occurrence in the old days.
Yusef sounds like a right giggle.
Another necessary underlying belief of the PC-gorn-mad brigade is that there isn't actually any racism/sexism/disablism/etc out there anyway, so all the 'fuss' about it is just lefty ranting or cynical job-creation schemes for diversity campaigners. That's the aspect of it that I hate the most, frankly.
Good to hear it all got cleared up in the end! I suppose the good side to the story is at least they didn't completely ignore it, which if it had been more than banter between colleagues would have been wrong. Shame it went so far even after Yusef gave his account, but I guess that's how it has to be when investigation procedures such as that are needed due to actuall harrassment.
Ahh that's ok Amberleaf l didnt think you did honest.
Good point about the over zealous being easier to put right than the out and out racists too. I had a good workmate called Yusaf many years ago a lovely lovely man - used to keep telling me he was allowed a second wife in his religion and was l interested, but he had to ask his first wife etc and l used to say (it was all in jest as l was married at the time to my first husband) 'I'm not being anyones second wife , you tell her l will be wife no. 1 otherwise forget it.'
Anyway you kinda had to be there but we used to have a real good laugh and,really good banter between us, trading insults at times etc etc.
One day he did something really stupid at work and l said 'Come here,l'll do it , what you like ,you're bloody useless, Yusaf.
He started laughing at the Useless Yusaf and wrote Useless at the top of his daily time sheet in front of him instead of his name.
Well one such manager spotted this and asked who had written this and was about to launch a witchunt , when someone just said 'Oh l think it was just Sudanames nickname for him'
So l'm hauled into her office and read the riot act and the companys anti racism policy was spouted at me and l was told to attend a disciplinary hearing etc etc.
My friend Yusaf got wind of this and barged into the office and told her exactly what had happened and it was him who had written it and him who had picked up on it and found it funny etc but she was having none of it.
I was in the union and went into the hearing with Yusaf and my union rep and it was all thrown out. Basically it was said that my 'joke' was a play on his name, not on his religion and not on the colour of his skin, so how on earth could it be racism plus no-one was offended and the 'victim' was my chief defence witness.
How on earth indeed? .
She was reprimanded and in the end agreed she had wasted everyones time and she calmed down a helluva lot after that incident and had to go on a course about racism again.
Altogether one massive waste of time , money , stress to all concerned and man-hours.
there are hours of fun to be had with fanjo puns
<ponders mileage of puns about five-ing a fanjo>
The Urchers, surely?
Isn't Umbridge where The Archers is set? <eyethangew>
Do you know what is PC gorn mad? That I have to use a misogynist word to describe people who want to fight for their right to use words like r*tard, n***er and so on - the fucking CUNTS.
Perhaps we should let people use whatever terminology they want, so the normal, decent people know who are the thick, nasty, ignorant scumbags to avoid at all costs.
I did get your point, I just got carried away!
Oh no sorry sudaname, I didn't think you agreed with it, sorry if my reply gave the impression thay I did!
Eldritch, yes there are 'hyper-aware' types out there without doubt. IMO though, they are coming at it with good intentions however misguided they may be.
People like that usually have no direct experience of ethnic minorities, but have a desire to be non offensive. Its usually a lot easier to put people like that straight though as they tend to be more open minded than their racist counterparts.
Amberleaf l hope l didn't come across as agreeing with that argument, that wasn't my intention. I was just giving an opinion from my personal experience observing my DGD in the face of insensitivity, ignorance, call it what you will, as to how this laughing/brushing most of it off self preservation policy can to some people seem as if you don't really mind, when in fact you do.
I do agree, AmberLeaf, but in my direct experience there are white MC people who do take it upon themselves to be offended on one's behalf or police language without consulting the people referred to or preach about how one should self-identify etc. They are the kind of people who worry about mentioning that someone is black even if it is completely relevant to the discussion. They never spot the ironies in telling others what they should be offended by. It's not common, but they are there.
The one that has cropped up most for me is being reproved for referring to myself as mixed race or bi-racial rather than black. There were a couple at my college who had a thing about sending Xmas cards or making a big deal of Christmas being 'offensive' to the Muslim students. Who firmly put them straight, once they were aware of it.
There is a common argument by anti-pc/pcgm folk that people from ethnic minorities for example dont actually mind the racist jokes or even find them funny and it is the pc mob causing all the bad feeling etc etc
No I can safely say that that argument is bollocks.
'Ethnic minorities' do mind racist jokes etc.
It is certainly not just others (white MC people as is often implied in such arguments) who take offence on their behalf.
There is plenty of evidence available online to prove that objection to casual racism doesn't just come from MC white 'do-gooders'
Plenty of evidence available too simon to indicate that people with disabilities are more than capable of expressing their own feelings regarding terminology etc, without the need for others to be offended on their behalf.
I've passed messages on to DD. She says Thank you.
Can I ask what is obviously a deeply stupid question?
No matter what your views on whether you should be able to use offensive language, why would you actually want to?
Why would you want to offend or hurt people? Why would you want people to think you're ignorant or bigotted?
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