To think its completely outrageous for the govt to not include internet access as a necessity on the voucher programme when

(504 Posts)

they are now demanding all benefit applications and correspondence has to be online? I think it is disgusting. Its pushing already marginalised and often vulnerable people beyond the edge. In our Borough over 20% of folk do not have internet access. These people are generally the poor, the foreign, those with MH issues. Is this just another step to ensure the poorest most vulnerable members of society have no voice or access to services?

RealAleandOpenFires Fri 29-Mar-13 23:18:02

Questions for you TwoBra...

If everyove has to go online to claim benefits and:-

1) The whole system gets hacked, what happens next?
or
2) You fill out the on-line forms and system crashes due to overload of claiments...how do you prove that you did fill out the forms? (please don't say "screen shot/picture" as they can be faked)

Darkesteyes Fri 29-Mar-13 20:35:49

Apparently out of the four pilot areas for Universal Credit which were due to start on Easter Monday three have been suspended until July.
And there was a report about these changes on Channel 4 news this evening on how the I.T. isnt up to scratch.

PainForLife Fri 29-Mar-13 15:44:22

just wanted to add my opinion for what it's worth as someone who is physically disabled & suffered MH issues.

I think what the government has completely forgotten about (by choice I'm sure) is people like me. I am intelligent enough to complete any form whether online/paperbased but the fact is my physical incapability doesn't allow me to do so. more often then not my physical state impacts on my mental state.

cost is an important factor for people in my situation (our local libraries have been closed so now the closest one is 45mins away, local council offices closed so the nearest one again is 45 mins away). I had a local charity supporting me tasks such as application etc but they have been forced to close due to lack of funding. personally for me it would be helpful to have telephone application whereby they take you through the application & then print it out & post it to you to sign & date.

my local council has withdrawn many facilities that were available to vulnerable people like myself/my elderly parents so no doubt do many of us will just grey so frustrated with the system that we would.not bother to apply for benefits we are entitled to (I'm sure that is what the government is aiming for). also I must say the people supposedly employed in local council office generally see completely unhelpful morons who cannot even answers simple questions without referring it to some department or another so you end up waiting for weeks to get a simple answer or they treat you like your the scum of society. I have worked all my life until an incident left me with physical problems so I was forced out of my job & onto disability benefits.

I absolutely wish I could turn back time & not be disabled but the fact is I am & unfortunately nothing will change that for the rest of my life BUT I absolutely am disgusted by those who think it is a crime to be on benefits. next time you open your mouth to give an opinion think about those who have been put into the unfair/judgeable system without a choice.

thank you nailak. that was my point! because this is a system which is being introduced right now. not after the next election, but right now. so people are being disenfranchised right now.

nailak Fri 29-Mar-13 15:06:22

Anyway the point is if someone is an emergency and are receiving vouchers and have no cash, they need Internet to sort out their benefits, but can't get on Internet, even at library coz the vouchers don't cover that.

nailak Fri 29-Mar-13 15:04:21

bobby did you miss the bit where most people who claim benefits are in work, so if someone works those hours they can't be at library filling in forms in those hours either.

One lady I know her husband works 7 to 9.30 as a cleanerin a school, then travels to another school on other side of borough to work as dinner assistant from 11 to 2.3o then travels back to first school to clean from 4 to 6

In his hours there is no time to sit and fill in forms which take more then the odd half hour.

Asamumnonsense Fri 29-Mar-13 09:27:18

I just read an article about how the coming changes are apparently going to badly affect people and the already poorest and it push even more people into poverty. How can anyone say that these are good policies? I am so appalled that people like Twobras cannot see the affect it is going to have on our society.
Online application shouldn't be forced onto people! Internet isn't cheap, a laptop/pc isn't cheap. Are they providing extra help for this?? I do not think so!

ilovexmastime Fri 29-Mar-13 09:06:37

OP YANBU. It's taken me two days to read the whole thread and I can't believe how apparently wilfully stupid some people are.
The solution to the problem is quite clearly is allow claimants to claim by post...as has been said over and over again. This doesn't seem to be an unreasonable solution, hardly rocket science, and yet there have been 10 pages of arguing about the OP.
I don't understand why, even if you're a raging right winger, you wouldn't just look at the situation and go 'hmm, that seems like a bit of a stupid idea' and agree that allowing people to make postal applications would be fairer. You can still think that poor people are scroungers whilst acknowledging that the system is wrong (if you are that way inclined).

whattimestea Fri 29-Mar-13 08:38:03

I despair when i read on threads regarding benefits etc

The cold hearted, lack of empathy and uncaring attitude of some posters is sometimes less than human!

Life doesn't always pan out the way you'd hoped or planned. For a variety of reasons people find that their circumstances are turned on their heads and they need help and assistance in getting control back again

Some people obviously can only believe that everyone on benefits are lazy, scroungers. Work shy and entitled the lot of em. These sort of people usually make exceptions for people with disabilities or MH problems (tho secretly wish to include these groups in their blinkered take on things but lack the courage - that would appear TOO inhumane even for them)

Obviously these people will never find themselves down on their luck. Even if they do they are too savvy to need any help. With their genius thinking they will turn their lives around instantaneously completely by themselves.

BUT if they should ever have to call upon the state or others to support them or provide a safety net thru a scary, difficult and sometimes baffling and confusing time i sincerely hope they come across people who see things as clear cut, harsh and uncaring as they do.

bobbypercy1 Fri 29-Mar-13 08:02:22

Is this thread swinging between left-wing (rational people) and right-wing(TwoBrasDontMakeABodice)

bobbypercy1 Fri 29-Mar-13 07:43:55

Where I live the council has been opening new purpose-built libraries across the county. At these libraries Internet access is free and the libraries open early and close 5ish. These libraries have even been built in the villages. So the 'library excuse' cannot be used here. Either way, the government is making a mockery of vulnerable people. Inexcusable laziness by the government and the pathetic online system.

Maryz Fri 29-Mar-13 00:09:18

I'm sure this has been said, but surely if 20% of households don't have internet connections, and considering that 100% of well-off households do, then surely by definition it will be much more than 20% of households on benefits who don't.

No-one in my house has a smartphone. We do atm have broadband, but if we didn't our local library charges, and has a 30 minute limit. And is closing next year, I think.

LineRunner Fri 29-Mar-13 00:04:06

Oh, is it a kunty klaxon situation?

expatinscotland Fri 29-Mar-13 00:03:07

Oh, I see Mosman is back in another guise, TwoBras. Lovely.

RealAleandOpenFires Thu 28-Mar-13 23:44:06

Oh btw...the 'puter made out of a ham was it a "naice" ham that cost a fiver for a wafer thin slice? grin

edam Thu 28-Mar-13 23:41:28

I can't work out whether the immensely stupid decision to demand all benefits applications are made online is either a. because the politicians and policy advisers in responsible have never done anything outside Westminster and have no clue about the real world where most people live or b. a cynical attempt to put a massive hurdle in the way of anyone applying for benefits, especially the disabled.

Most 'political advisers' are 20-somethings who have spent their whole life in 'good' schools, at Russell Group universities and then working for politicians. They have sod-all life experience. Many of the people in charge have no experience outside politics - I think Cameron worked in PR for a couple of years, not sure Osborne has done anything else. They are quite possibly cynical bastards who know full well this will make it ruddy hard for lots of people to claim benefits as well as being isolated and not bothering to even think about what life is like outside Westminster, but the Westminster bubble is definitely a factor.

Darkesteyes Thu 28-Mar-13 23:41:25

Too true Line Runner.

grovel Thu 28-Mar-13 23:40:46

ProtegeMoi, I so agree. We need - big time- a strategy for those who can't use the web.

RealAleandOpenFires Thu 28-Mar-13 23:31:49

MOST people, whether employed or unemployed have a smart phone. Too many excuses being made in my lowly opinion.

Hahahahahahahahahaha........., we don't even own a basic mobile, let alone a smart one. Tell you what though, you can buy me a top of the range Ipad and pay for the 'net contract/s aswell...yes?

mummabug Thu 28-Mar-13 23:20:26

LMAO at twobras - who throughout this thread has proved with his/her every post to be...well...just, STUPID.

LMAO for us all bothering to respond. Literally like trying to have a debate with a drunk person.

Hang on......maybe she is drunk?

LineRunner Thu 28-Mar-13 23:10:08

Even shithouses like MacKingBurgerLicking expect minimum wage shiftworkers to be online, just so they can tell them their shift has been changed or indeed cancelled.

ProtegeMoi Thu 28-Mar-13 22:25:35

My mother is both blind and deaf, she has no Internet access, computer or smart phone, she has no need for them and is unable to use them

She survives on income support and DLA, soon to be changed to universal credit and PIP.

I would live to know how she is supposed to apply online for anything. Even if there was a library with a computer right next door to her she can't see the screen to complete anything.

I guess she would have to just stay at home and starve seeing as she is stupid enough to be born without functional senses?

concretebox Thu 28-Mar-13 22:03:57

I wonder if the following passed Twobras... by?
A Glaswegian so ignorant is embarrassing.

Save Glasgow from 'cruel and unfair' welfare changes

www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/save-glasgow-from-cruel-and-unfair-welfare-changes-116826n.20342511

...as many as 30,000 tenants in Glasgow do not have a bank account...

...total broadband take-up in Glasgow was one of the lowest in the UK, with just over half of homes online – well below the average south of the border, where almost three quarters of homes have internet access.

crashdoll Thu 28-Mar-13 22:03:51

Nope sorry I lied 53% of people who have never used the internet are disabled people.

crashdoll Thu 28-Mar-13 21:45:37

50% of people who do not have regular access to the internet are disabled - just throwing that out there.

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