To think Universal Credit still won't get the long term unemployed into work and targets the wrong people?

(121 Posts)
retrorita Mon 25-Mar-13 20:14:20

UC (and the bedroom tax) is wrong on so many levels that its hard to know where to start.

I think one of the concerns is that it still won't get the long term employed, who have chosen to live on benefits, into work.

It targets and hurts the wrong people, those who have a real need of the welfare state.

Take my neighbours for example. They are a couple. Have 5 children. And have never worked a day in their life. They have 2 daughters who have left home and have children of their own (both were teenage pregnancies). They have 2 teenagers living at home who are at college. The youngest child is in primary school.

They live in a 3 bed council house.

Even with the recent JSA changes (having to prove you are looking for work etc) they still haven't been made to find employment.

AIBU to think UC will not change this? That they will still manage to avoid work?

I think UC will end up hurting a lot of people but not targeting the people it should be aimed at.

LadyBeagleEyes Mon 25-Mar-13 22:15:19

Does anyone remember the poll tax riots?
It's now even worse than even then, the bedroom tax is the poll tax in another form, the universal credits will affect the unemployed and all those on minimum wage who work their arses off and we're walking into it blindly.
Oh and the bankers will still get their bonuses.
I kind of wish I was back in the 70's and 80's again, because there seemed to be genuine outrage then.

I think probably most people know people that take the piss with benefits and have no intention of ever working. I do.

However, since unemployment is so high there couldn't possibly be a job for every person capable of working. So why force people who don't want to work to compete against those that do?

Surely during a recession is the worst possible time to introduce these changes? I would be also interested to know how much this new system will cost to implement versus the supposed savings.

I'm going to be brave and admit that I have also taken the piss with tax credits, as have a number of other self employed people I know.

The changes should (if implemented as I understand) stop the self employed/ limited companies deliberately declaring a low income whilst claiming 30+ hours a week worked in order to maximise tax credits claims. This isn't currently illegal by the way.

FasterStronger Mon 25-Mar-13 22:24:12

you introduce them now to get everything ready for the economy picking up.

Mmmm not thought of it that way. Good point.

The changes should (if implemented as I understand) stop the self employed/ limited companies deliberately declaring a low income whilst claiming 30+ hours a week worked in order to maximise tax credits claims. This isn't currently illegal by the way.

Could you clarify exactly how these changes will effect the self-employed in this way? Because we are self employed and have a limited company, and we claim tax credits because we ARE on a low income - the same income we declare to the Inland Revenue. Are you saying UC will have their own criteria (and power) to assess income, regardless of what the IR decide? <worried>

AudrinaAdare Tue 26-Mar-13 00:22:56

Accountants have been saying UC is unworkable for self-employed people for ages.

Having to make a net profit of NMW every single month in order to qualify goes against basic accounting and tax principles. Business doesn't work like that! You will have some months with outlays for stock - it is supposed to be calculated throughout the tax year and even then it's complicated.

But this is very deliberate.

What fucks me off is that Job Centres have been told to push as many people into S.E as they can in order to massage the unemployment figures but when U.C comes in they'll be screwed.

Darkesteyes Tue 26-Mar-13 00:32:11

A letter about JC sanctions got leaked to the Guardian. The video is heartbreaking.

Darkesteyes Tue 26-Mar-13 00:34:41
CutePuppy Tue 26-Mar-13 00:53:16

Link darkest eyes?

CutePuppy Tue 26-Mar-13 00:54:49

Xpost as I didn't refresh! Apologies!

WafflyVersatile Tue 26-Mar-13 00:57:52

UC is going to target people on benefits. They are all the wrong people to benefit. Except perhaps buy to let landlords. They're the real beneficiaries of housing benefit.

We need something to target Amazon and Tesco and Cameron etc. Get your bile out for them not people at the bottom of the heap.

fighting over crumbs from the rich man's table, look at you all*. Have some fucking solidarity.

*not 'all' of you obviously.

WafflyVersatile Tue 26-Mar-13 00:58:15

UC is going to target people on benefits. They are all the wrong people to targe. Except perhaps buy to let landlords. They're the real beneficiaries of housing benefit.

We need something to target Amazon and Tesco and Cameron etc. Get your bile out for them not people at the bottom of the heap.

fighting over crumbs from the rich man's table, look at you all*. Have some fucking solidarity.

*not 'all' of you obviously.

WafflyVersatile Tue 26-Mar-13 01:00:56

However, since unemployment is so high there couldn't possibly be a job for every person capable of working. So why force people who don't want to work to compete against those that do?

completely agree with this. We should thank people who are willing to live on a pittance and not steal our jobs!!!! Like you're always complaining the immigrants!!! do.

ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmmmmmmmm Tue 26-Mar-13 01:41:56

"We need something to target Amazon and Tesco and Cameron etc. Get your bile out for them not people at the bottom of the heap"

Or, indeed, Guardian Media Group, with their own "efficient" offshore arrangements.

But then,perhaps,it's different when the Guardian does it? grin

IneedAsockamnesty Tue 26-Mar-13 02:26:59

The changes should (if implemented as I understand) stop the self employed/ limited companies deliberately declaring a low income whilst claiming 30+ hours a week worked in order to maximise tax credits claims. This isn't currently illegal by the way

hmm it is if you don't actually work that amount of hours. Its called benefit fraud.

bochead Tue 26-Mar-13 06:46:55

The real feckless under class will simply top up the amount lost from benefits under UC with a few more drug deals, violent muggings and housebreakings each month. Their wide screen TV's, BMW's and fancy holidays aren't taxpayer funded now, but derived from criminal sources. Can people not see this?

However perfectly ordinary fully paid up members of society who have through sheer bad luck and cicumstances will go hungry and cold. Anybody can have a bad accident that leaves them with a disability and nobody's job is secure any longer. The welfare state, NHS and education systems are being dismantled and the public is being encouraged to blame the most vulnerable members of society for this by one of the most effective propaganda machines history has ever seen.

The working and middle-classes are being asset stripped of everything they hold dear, in a systematic fashion for the benefit of the few. (Camerloon must be cheering at the surge in disability hate crimes since he came to power.)

The top of society will be able to use their tax payer funded banker's bonuses to buy the assets & homes of the dispossed at a song in a modern day reenactment of the Highland clearances. The greatest 419 scam of all time back in 2007/8 wasn't enough. The MP's will continue to enjoy their subsidised restaurant, bar and constantly increasing pension.

get ready to doff you cap at your betters as you queue for your bowl of gruel, and prepare to answer your Grandkids when they ask you how the hell did we let this happen?

sashh Tue 26-Mar-13 07:40:56

porridge

\Has your brother looked at the free bus pass (quick before that goes) one of the criteria is that if you cannot drive due to epilepsy you can apply.

I know it's not much good if you are trying to get somewhere at 3am but could save him on day shifts.

mumofweeboys Tue 26-Mar-13 08:09:39

Porridge

what about the access to work scheme, they give money to people in your brothers situation to get to work

FasterStronger Tue 26-Mar-13 08:28:13

(Camerloon must be cheering at the surge in disability hate crimes since he came to power.)

his son, the one who died a few years ago, had cerebal palsy. his father as a double amputee.

so probably not.

Dawndonna Tue 26-Mar-13 08:55:09

Those of us that are disabled or have disabled people in the family are well aware of Cameron's situation, Faster. We're also aware that he claimed DLA for his son. The benefit he is now scrapping in favour of PiP with a targeted reduction in uptake of 20%.
this is what happens now.

mrsjay Tue 26-Mar-13 08:59:53

what expat said except my cousin has 20 kids to 5 different dads and never lived with any of them grin UC is going to be shite it isn't about getting anybody back to work it is to keep the poor poorer

Orwellian Tue 26-Mar-13 09:01:50

YANBU. The Universal credit elemnts of current benefits are actually going to be more generous than what they currently are. There is going to be very little pressure for long term workshy to change as they will be getting more than they do now. It is basically about punishing those already in work who are not working enough and making sure that middle income/middle class families lose some of their wage and have to work more hours as they are an easy target and don't really complain. The Tories don't want a repeat of the riots so they won't do anything to upset a certain strata of society.

FasterStronger Tue 26-Mar-13 09:09:46

dawndonna - do you think he is cheering about the rise in disability hate crime?

mrsjay Tue 26-Mar-13 09:10:01

and long term fit unemployed people still have to sign on every fortnight even those with children

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