to be sad that my DD has now passed gender discrimination 101?

(407 Posts)
ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:02:44

My DD can now accurately pick out the boys and girls in her peer group (age 1-2). Presumably she has successfully identified that boys and girls are dressed differently/have their hair cut differently.

This is entirely due to adult imposed gender discrimination, as she a) isn't looking at them naked, b) can't possibly be detecting the very subtle actual differences in behaviour/appearance.

So lets hurry onto the next lesson:

Society expects girls and boys to behave differently and have different interests, strengths and weaknesses.

Before I could at least wonder if, when she saw in books that all the girls are doing different things to the boys, she might not realise which was which and specifically which group she was 'supposed' to be in. Now I know she will be learning exactly what is expected of her every time a tired old stereotype is rolled out.

DewDr0p Mon 25-Mar-13 14:30:45

Perhaps you should get some new books OP? hmm

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:30:46

I bet DD wouldn't be able to separate out the boys and girls from a photo taken in the 1970s.

Of course that led to massive confusion and a total inability to pull people of the right gender in night clubs...or something.

LackaDAISYcal Mon 25-Mar-13 14:31:00

I hardly think that being able to tell boys and girls apart is gender discrimination 101. I thought you were going to bemoan that fact that your eight yo wasn't allowed to join the football team or something, slightly more discriminatory. Not that your DD has reached a perfectly normal developmental milestone.

Of all the things to get your <non frilly> knickers in a twist about hmm

And for the record, behaving differently is as much about genetics as it is conditioning. True fact. Radio 4 said so yesterday.

Why dont you go down to Saudi, and launch a line of Pink Thobes to the fashion conscious men, while you are at it?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 25-Mar-13 14:31:49

OP you just need to keep encouraging her to be open minded. I have two DDs aged 8 and 5 who are very vociferous about equal rights for boys and girls.

DD2 came home outraged from her 1st nursery when a keyworker had tried to discourage a boy from dressing up in a princess frock.

I went to see the manager over this...and was told that the keyworker had been told never to stifle the children again...

I was able to report back to DD that her friend could now wear whatever he liked without being told off.

The boys mother has always allowed him free expression and he is rarely without his Strawberry Shortcake bag.

DD2 is just as outspoken and never lets anyone off with sexist remarks.

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:32:11

pure what is idiotic specifically?

If your child wants to wear colour X and you say they are not allowed because of their gender, how is that not discrimination?

DreamingofSummer Mon 25-Mar-13 14:32:15

Yep - it's full moon again tonight

Emilythornesbff Mon 25-Mar-13 14:32:24

No you don't have to like it.

But I think your reaction shows that you don't really understand it, or the importance of appreciating social norms.

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:33:53

What actually comes after 101? <doesn't understand the american system>

JuneChurch Mon 25-Mar-13 14:33:58

Of course you can tell the 1970s boys and girls apart hmm

lottieandmia Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:01

I think this is silly. Even when babies are really young it's often clear whether they look like a boy or a girl, not taking into account clothing etc. Girls and boys are different from conception because of xx or xy.

Don't you think there are more important things to be sad about OP?

LackaDAISYcal Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:11

that's because in the sevnties we were all dressed like boys in denim dungarees and t-shirts and looked like boys. Does that not say that girls were denied an identity as children? Is that not in itself a form of discrimination?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:15

Social norms be damned Emily! If we were all to follow those then we'd still be in bloody crinolines and gay people would be getting flogged!

MightTinge Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:15

You're being rather OTT.

They did a study on a group of 12 month old babies, all dressed in white baby grows. The boy babies naturally grouped together and played, as did the girls

There was nothing there to tell the children what sex the others were, and yet they unconciously knew.

She was always going to find out...

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:18

social norms that keep people safe / make life bearable (eg. no killing, share toys) are good.

social norms that keep people in their place artificially by gender are not good.

I can be okay with the first and not the second surely?

NeoMaxiZoomDweebie Mon 25-Mar-13 14:35:36

Tinge...who is "they"?

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:36:52

lottie happily I have the capacity to be sad about more than one thing at the same time!

So don't worry...all the important things to be sad about (lack of chocolate, wine, and biscuits) are still being taken care of.

LackaDAISYcal Mon 25-Mar-13 14:37:29

though in fact in one of my school photos even everyone in dungies and t shirts the girls were obviously girls and the boys obviously boys.

Pandemoniaa Mon 25-Mar-13 14:37:37

If your child wants to wear colour X and you say they are not allowed because of their gender, how is that not discrimination?

What I particularly dislike about your assumptions, OP is that they are precisely that, assumptions. Based on absolutely zero knowledge of the circumstances. You see a 2 year girl in pink and think "That poor child. She's now under the yoke of a patriarchal society's insistence on conforming to gender stereotype". The 2 year old girl is much more likely to be thinking "I like this T-shirt. I'm glad I chose it today".

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:37:53

june can you? really? I was looking at a school photo (non-uniform) from that era and I would say about 10% were readily identifiable by gender....

MightTinge Mon 25-Mar-13 14:38:05

I knew someone would ask. wink

They being the psychologists.

I'll try and track down the study so I can give you actual names if you like.

Emilythornesbff Mon 25-Mar-13 14:38:33

Btw, I think it's great that you let your dd chose / wear clothes from a more neutral "palate".
And you'll clearly be able to guide her in the ways of being a confident indidual which is great.
I hope I mange some of that with my dcs.

ICBINEG Mon 25-Mar-13 14:38:34

The photo I was looking it was y1....might make a difference....

myfirstkitchen Mon 25-Mar-13 14:38:37

At 10?? Surely most kids can pick out who's a boy and who's a girl years before that? Even growing up watching the krankees?

FeckOffCup Mon 25-Mar-13 14:38:38

How is it disrciminating against my DD to put her in a skirt? She is wearing jeans today but it could just have easily been denim skirt and tights, she would be the same child and I wouldn't treat her any differently so where does discrimination come into it? You have a point about the frilly dresses for everyday wear not being practical but we only use them for special occasions not going to tumble tots/the park etc.

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