Angry another attack on sahm mum!

(364 Posts)
mam29 Mon 18-Mar-13 20:23:10

I was worried about new childcare arrangements and its got high limit earn up to 150k but both parents have to be working.

Im guessing from this article the current childcare voucher scheme being phased out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21833929

where exactly are these term time jobs and cheap flexible childcare.

where are all these jobs that dont seem to require person to be fully flexible.

had 1st in 2006 went back full time when she was one in 2007.
fulltime place 52weeks nursery was 9000 a year you can claim relief up to 6k.

used vouchers

quit work after no 2 used vouchers for preschool education who had reduced to 1day a week doing nursery.

child no 2 started 1day a week from 18months and nursery been really good for her development. its £40 a day so 160 on 4week month.

husband used couchers as he works fulltime saves us a little.

child 2 now gets 15hour funding which helps.

was hoping to start child no 3 and use childcare vouchers now looks like cant do that and might have to wait until fnding term after 3rd birthday which think is bit late.

To make matters worse child no 2 has september birthday so missed this sept school year by 16days so have year extra paying childcare.

we lucky we dident lose child benefit as at moment we below 50k
we lost £10 a week childcare tax credits last april.

feel sorry for sahm mum whos husnand earns over 50k loses cb and now childcare vouchers yet they say preschool education is important and good for educational outcomes.

we very much feeling squeezed middle tonight as we just about get by each month as we privatly rent too.

sleepdodger Mon 18-Mar-13 21:30:56

I'm a higher tax payer working ft and having just lost cb now loose relief on vouchers
The gov make it really hard to keep working
Whilst I earn well job is v full on and stressfull, the more the child care costs the less I bring home and the less I can justify working
If I pack it in ironically we'd be entities to tax credits towards child care and cb again.... Gov would lose my tax contribution and have to pay more
I know we're still in better position than many but we're not rich and I'm fed up of being the go to middle option for funding the governments next woo idea
As a side note the fuel costs which are obscene and rising again makes work less attractive
As someone with a sound work ethic and over a decade in my career at a level I'm disappointed and disillusioned at how I'm being treated
Tax me yes absolutely but please stop messing with the rest it makes planning a life confused

mam29 Mon 18-Mar-13 21:32:29

the bbc link says upto £55 a week im not saying i save £55 a week.
we get £160 month vouchers the max is £243 per person can claim each month which we did when worked fulltime.

I have no idea how they came to this figure.

ceeveebee Mon 18-Mar-13 21:35:06

Ah well £55 per week is for two higher rate taxpayers. Ie not a family with a SAHM or SAHD

kungfupannda Mon 18-Mar-13 21:39:47

At a quick glance, I don't see a massive problem with this.

If both parents work, childcare is required. If only one parent works, childcare is generally not required.

With one parent at home, childcare is a nice extra. Personally, I found that DS1 got a lot out of being at nursery, so when I was on SMP, we still stretched ourselves a bit to keep him in nursery for 2 days a week as he enjoyed it and it gave me some time with ust DS2. But we didn't need that childcare.

Unfortunately, there have to be cuts somewhere - I don't think this a terrible place to make a cut.

mam29 Mon 18-Mar-13 21:42:14

Sleep dodger will you lose out on this or is there 2working parents.
have you lost child benefit?

This will hit single/widowed parents on decent wage too I imaginbe unless they excempt group?

I never said £55 was for one parent.

i just quoted what article said,

I need to see more detail but right now not sure im impressed.
not enough detail.

combined with new childcare farming ie changing rations mean not only will childcare cost more but it be worse quality.

CloudsAndTrees Mon 18-Mar-13 21:51:18

Free pre school for 2 year olds was intended to give those children the education they need, as it was shown that children from deprived background have worse outcomes. It's not there to give the parents a break, it's for the sake of the children who are already disadvantaged.

rainrainandmorerain Mon 18-Mar-13 23:41:00

Clouds, yes, spot on. Drives me round the bend when people keep talking about 15 hours of 'free childcare.' It's a pre-school learning through play programme. And it can be hugely positive as an early influence for children from v low income families.

I too don't understand why sahp's need professional childcare, although I do see that some might provide a nice break. I don't see why they govt should subsidise that though. Not remotely bashing sahms, but paid childcare is linked to working parents, surely.

(as we are both self employed, me and dp haven't had anything so far in terms of subsidised childcare, but even among my paye friends, I genuinely don't know anyone who uses a voucher scheme. Maybe they are more common in some sectors than others, I dunno....)

maisiejoe123 Thu 21-Mar-13 15:09:33

Why would a SAHM want to get childcare paid? Surely the whole point is that you have made a decision not to work, you cannot then get 'childcare' paid for as well.

Its funny, a lot of people believe in the cuts - as long as it doesnt effect them!!

countrykitten Thu 21-Mar-13 15:16:38

You are a SAHM - you have chosen not to work and to look after your children yourself. You do not need paid childcare. I am not even sure why you think you should be entitled to it FGS.

Bramshott Thu 21-Mar-13 15:36:13

Actually I think I do see your point mam29. The current vouchers can be used to pay for a range of childcare - whether that's nursery before 3YO, after school club, holiday playscheme etc. They are a recognition that people with families have extra costs, with no judgement on domestic arrangements, and no direct govt funding, just a saving on tax & NI like with pension contributions. But, the takeup has (apparently, if the figures in the press this week are to be believed) been very low - only 5% of employers offer them.

The new scheme is very different - it's government help for childcare in families with under 5s, where both parents work - i.e. those with the highest childcare bills. I don't see why that has to replace the current system, which works well for those who use it (we do), but if the takeup has really been as low as they're saying, I can see that it may not be working that well for all.

x2boys Thu 21-Mar-13 15:44:25

I have read the articles and i cant see how these are an attack on stay at home parents as otheres have said you arnt working why would you need the childcare and 1200 /pa is not really going to go far towards providing childcare. I work for the NHS so they do provide chilcare vouchers but they arent huge saving tbh the only saving is that you dont pay tax on that part of your salary. I personally have never used childcare as i have never found it to be flexible enough as a nurse i work lots of unsocial hours but we get by as my husband works shifts in a warehouse so we work opposite shifts not great for a relatioship but there you go!

pointythings Thu 21-Mar-13 18:35:28

I think the loss of child benefit in the way it has been done is what's driving this. Families with a SAHM where the main earner gets more than £50-60k will lose the benefit and also not get any of the new help, whilst families with two earners both below the cut-off for CB will keep it and now get help with childcare. And yes, this is manifestly unfair - but the problem is in the government's insane refusal to cut CB based on household income and setting the threshold higher. If it had been done on household income and the limit set at, say, £70k, then this would not be so bitter.

I do feel very strongly that the limits for this new scheme are also insane - it should be tapered so that those who earn least get the most help with childcare. I no longer use childcare (and never got any help beyond the 12.5 hours at age 3) but it sticks in my craw that my taxes are going to go on funding childcare support for people who earn many, many times what DH and I do.

Molehillmountain Thu 21-Mar-13 18:44:11

Okay, sahp don't need childcare. Neither do earners of £150k need tax relief on childcare. Some sahp need to use childcare more than high earners need the tax relief. Fairness and those who can pay paying, please.

skaen Thu 21-Mar-13 18:47:06

Anyone on vouchers can carry on on vouchers, especially as this isn't coming until 2015 after the next election (and the chances of a Conservative victory?)

The reason it's going up to £150 per parent is to encourage those parents back to work - it is a small benefit to say it really is worth carrying on working and paying £70k in tax and ni per year each rather than giving up to be SAHP.

Whether it will work is another thing but I really don't think it is SAHM bashing.

MrsKeithRichards Thu 21-Mar-13 19:19:45

Lol ok you want tax relief to buy childcare so you can do what? Eat cake?

pompompom Thu 21-Mar-13 19:23:22

Oh good, another thread on this.

I can't even understand most of this one

hazeyjane Thu 21-Mar-13 19:30:34

'Free pre school for 2 year olds was intended to give those children the education they need, as it was shown that children from deprived background have worse outcomes. It's not there to give the parents a break, it's for the sake of the children who are already disadvantaged.'

It does really piss me off that this isn't available to disabled children (at least in our area), ds needs to go to preschool, but won't receive funding until he turns 3. Dh earns just over the income threshold, so we don't qualify.

But wrt the op, agree with everyone else, if you are a sahm then you don't need the childcare until they start preschool at 3.

TheYamiOfYolk Thu 21-Mar-13 19:42:55

SAHPs don't need the childcare. I am a bit concerned that it doesn't appear to apply to families where one or both parents are students, though

twinklesparkles Thu 21-Mar-13 19:45:44

I think if a person or their husband earn over 50+K then they don't actually HAVE a problem.....
How can a family NOT survive on 4k+ a month???? sad even with the cost of mortgage and childcare

Joanna45 Thu 21-Mar-13 19:47:30

Pointythings has hit the nail on the head. Why should SAHM and family (who has just lost Child Benefit) be subsidising dual income parents(who have kept their CB) and earn more than them? SAHMs or SAHDs are being discriminated against and the tax we pay as a family is going to financially help parents who both work and who earn up to £150K or more which is just not fair. Happy to help out lower earning couples but this is crazy.

ihategeorgeosborne Thu 21-Mar-13 19:48:04

I don't have an issue with SAHMs not being offered tax relief on child care. What I do have an issue with is being told I am wealthy enough to lose CB for 3 DC due to being married to someone earning just over 50k, then a few months later hearing that families earning up to 300k will be entitled to tax relief on child care for each child. 50k is either rich or it isn't. If it is then fine, remove child benefit for all families earning 50k, rather than continuing to pay it to families earning up to 100k. As far as I can see, this government hates families with a SAHP and wants to make life as difficult as possible for us. As mam29 says, the moral of the story is make sure that two of you work and neither of you ever dare to become higher rate tax payers. You get to spend more time with your kids, pay less tax and are not constantly being shafted by the government.

Creameggkr Thu 21-Mar-13 19:49:56

Bit annoying.
I'd love to spend more time with my dds but I have to work.
We claim nothing for childcare as we share it due to our shift work.
Life can be manic and busy and we get very tired.
We never get a break.
Why should you get paid to have time to yourself if you don't work when working parents get no break at all.
If you want time off then pay for it.

angeltulips Thu 21-Mar-13 19:55:49

So much moaning! Those who are talking about "subsidising" working parents - you do know that's not how taxation works, right? (And, even if you did, you'd have to get in line behind the childfree, who subsidise ALL of our children to an enormous extent).

I can't see the problem, really. The £150k limit is absurd but I guess it's linked to tax bands (which is a silly reason but there you go - can't expect Gideon to do anything 100% properly can we now?!)

Gingefringe Thu 21-Mar-13 20:15:31

I had to pay for the lot and got no tax credits, bonds or vouchers. Now I've just lost my child benefit as my husband is a higher rate tax payer.

Stop your moaning - you don't go to work so why should you be subsidised for your lifestyle?

mam29 Thu 21-Mar-13 20:35:57

new scheme subsides combined income of 300k

i doubt in south east 50k goes far,

new scheme initially just under 5s

2parents entering scheme with 1 child get less than old scheme £600 less.

students need childcare too.

i dont understand in tax system why some things are combined and others are individual.

Husbands higher rate tax payer but under 50 higher rate is is 40k now I think.so hes 41k gross.

I worked fulltime until i had 2nd child.
never had jsa
never had housing benefits
had 10quid a week tax credits lost last april.I accepted that as we all in this together.

I disagree with the madness of child benefit.

Then this. 2earning family has more coming in.

We are worse off me staying at home unless I can find 30k plus a year job its not worth my while paying childcare for 3 e have no family here to help and after school provision and holiday is patchy.

They have 14weeks holiday a year plus inset days, plays, sports day, church services, parents evenings.

I chose to start dd2 at nursery just 1 day a eek not because I wanted to get rid of her but developmet its really helped her socialise and speech develop plus was due baby no 3 and wanted her to start before he was born so she dident feel pushed out.

As shes sept birthday its been long wait fpor 3grant got in jan when she was 3years 4months old as it works term after 3rd birthday so if you lucky enought to have december birthday you get grant few weeks later,

As shes missed the school year by 16days have extra time paying for her nursery, preschools now free as runs term time only,

Would love to start her brother hes 2 in few weeks and very slow with speech, very clingy for me and has no little freinds his own age.

thinking starting him 3hours per week at preschool then maybe in september whole day same as his sister so maybe I could find part time work on that day.

But even if I did i have to earn min of 10k under new scheme so 29hours at min wage to get the 1200 per child so like most part tie mums lots work 16hours wont be enough to go onto scheme.

But because hubby earns too much we not eligible under childcare element of tax credits either we stuck in the middle so the very high duel income couple get help and the low incoe or unemployed couple get benefits, subsidised childcare and free 2year old places.

Worked out my old job 20k a year -childcare for 3 including wrap around care for eldest is 24,000 a year-2400 childcare they
offreing as under 5s only leaves me defecit of 1600quid.

I have never taken anything, I paid taxes.
we pay council tax, road tax, hubby oays tax,

get nothing back to show for it.

All those who say lazy sahm such easy life its hectic always figured would have more time but 4school runs today,parenjts evening, gym, foodshopping, dcoctor surgery , preschool admin, housework and cooking. Its a shift that never seems to end.

I know so many who have hands on grandparents who take the for granted and gets loads of help I dont get that.
My mil likes to see them 1 at a time for 30mins.
Husbands long hours especially every bank holiday, weekends feels like being single um even worked mothers day.

I doing my best and fed up of sahm being vilified and non supported some recognition be nice and fairness for all.

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