Is it illegal to promote homosexuality in schools?

(93 Posts)
Reality Fri 08-Mar-13 10:21:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eebahgum Fri 08-Mar-13 13:05:06

The 3rs fallen ninja? No pe then? Art? Technology? ICT? Wow - that sounds like an exciting curriculum!

trockodile Fri 08-Mar-13 13:16:36

www.shaundellenty.com/ this is a good site to look at and you could probably ask him to clarify it for you. Shaun is gay and the deputy head of a primary school and does a lot of work with schools on how to prevent bullying and homophobia within schools.
I think that the policy you mention is wrong and would not send DS to a school with that policy. Homosexuality is as normal as having red hair IMO (ie less common but just as normal) and should be portrayed as such in any good school. That is not promoting homosexuality it is accepting and educating-surely the role of a good school.
Also thing that sex should be discussed in an age appropriate manner whether gay, straight or lesbian particularly with regards to safe sex and all teens should be taught about diversity and sexuality including where to safely find out more as opposed to stumbling about blindly on the Internet.

RevoltingPeasant Fri 08-Mar-13 13:37:28

At the risk of being RevoltingPedant, can I just say.....

Being gay is not a 'lifestyle', it's a sexuality/ sexual orientation. I think it's quite important that those are differentiated as lifestyle implies a choice.

I live in the suburbs in a semi-detached house and drive a Toyota: I have a middle-class professional lifestyle based on choices I made.

I also identify as heterosexual. This is not so much based on choices I made (though I s'pose social conditioning might come into it) but more based on a deep, physical attraction to rugby players men.

CoteDAzur Fri 08-Mar-13 13:40:52

I think you should note that the bit you are quoting in the OP talks about promoting homosexual behavior as the norm, and not promoting it in general.

bemybebe Fri 08-Mar-13 13:59:56

Unless I am missing something (English is not my first language), being a homosexual is the norm in a sense that having brown/blue/green/grey eyes is the norm. It is not the norm for a brown eyed person to have blue eyes, but it is a norm in a wider population. So, if being homosexual is the norm than behaving as one when a homosexual is the norm also. That is unless being a homosexual is considered undesirable, which is a totally different ball game.

bemybebe Fri 08-Mar-13 14:00:51

Sorry for mixing my articles, but I hope you get a gist.

CoteDAzur Fri 08-Mar-13 14:03:09

Something is "the norm" when most people do it. It means usual, typical, standard.

Homosexuality is normal, but it is not the norm.

kim147 Fri 08-Mar-13 14:10:30

Lots of pedantry about "norm" and "normal".
I do think it's important schools tackle homophobic bullying and do make an effort at making sure children who are homosexual know they are valued, have somewhere to turn to and that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual.

I think this is confusing the issue. 'Normal' as opposed to 'deviant' is a nasty, outdated way of looking at sexuality, and it's not the same thing as saying that the majority of people in our society live as heterosexuals rather than homosexuals.

I'd avoid the word 'normal' in this context, I don't see how it's useful.

bemybebe Fri 08-Mar-13 14:18:29

I appreciate you answering my question Cote but somehow I think "the norm" in the OP's abstract from a policy refers to societal expectations from an individual or a group of individuals and not to the actions of the majority.

At least because nobody argues that being a homosexual or behaving as one (whatever that means) is what "most people do".

ninjasquirrel Fri 08-Mar-13 14:33:33

You can't 'promote' homosexuality as as a lifestyle choice. But I hope that when my son goes to school it will promote acceptance of homosexuality as a normal way of being and have a good anti-bullying policy including homophobic bullying. Because gay young people have a right to that as a minimum.

JakeBullet Fri 08-Mar-13 14:53:19

The secondary school my niece attends has all manner of info leaflets and drop in sessions about a variety of things and homosexuality is among that....about accetance etc. Her school is Catholic but a "real world" Catholic school.

'Normal' isn't that useful a concept in understanding most social phenomena. In most cases, 'normal' becomes a value judgement more than anything else ('normal'=good; 'abnormal'= bad).

The fact is that both homosexual and heterosexual people exist in society (as well as people who identify their sexuality in other ways). Heterosexual people outnumber other groups, but that doesn't make them 'right' or 'better'. Just more numerous. Policies that imply otherwise are hugely problematic.

CoteDAzur Sat 09-Mar-13 15:39:45

"You can't 'promote' homosexuality as as a lifestyle choice"

That is not what the OP is talking about, but yes, it is possible and arguably already happening. Men see a lot of "girl-on-girl" action in porn, and come to appreciate it and expect it from girls they meet. Girls see women dancing provocatively together in music videos and think this is normal. They see men turned on by this and think it is sexy. They want to play the part.

I can't comment on how prevalent this is elsewhere, but it has been going on for at least the last 10 years where I live in the South of France.

CoteDAzur Sat 09-Mar-13 15:42:31

"In most cases, 'normal' becomes a value judgement more than anything else ('normal'=good; 'abnormal'= bad)."

If so, that is a misuse of the term. "Normal" means normal. It doesn't mean "good".

"The fact is that both homosexual and heterosexual people exist in society"

Yes, and that is why we said homosexuality is "normal".

"Heterosexual people outnumber other groups, but that doesn't make them 'right' or 'better'. Just more numerous."

Yes, and that is why homosexuality is not "the norm".

What seems to be the problem?

In the context of sexuality, the description of someone's sexuality as 'not normal' or the opposition of 'normal' to 'deviant' are both things that have a pretty long history. One might as well object that 'gay' means 'happy' and to use it to mean 'homosexual' is a misuse of the term.

Talkinpeace Sat 09-Mar-13 15:46:28

One of the things I still find surprising is how utterly cool my kids and their friends are about kids who are contentedly "out" at age 14.
No repression, no comment, no bullying, just acceptance of difference.

Kids today do not realise how lucky they are to live in a society so much more tolerant than even 30 years ago.

CoteDAzur Sat 09-Mar-13 15:53:17

Nobody is saying "normal", "not normal", or "deviant" here, so I don't know what you are trying to say. Nobody here is saying it. OP isn't saying it. What OP quotes doesn't mention it, either.

They do, though, cote - that's why people find 'normal' a poor term to use in this context, I think. I'm certainly not accusing the OP of saying any such thing, just explaining why 'normal' isn't the most helpful term to use in the context of sexuality.

'The norm' is exactly the same as saying 'normal' in the context. And you're dreadfully naive if you don't think the general usage of 'normal' in society is anything other than a judgement.

TiggyD Sat 09-Mar-13 20:34:38

Sounds like a hangover from Section 28.

So they have to teach children of parents in a same sex relationship that their parents aren't normal. Hmm. How is that not discriminatory and how will it stop bullying?

Knowsabitabouteducation Sat 09-Mar-13 20:35:25

How can you promote homosexuality?

bangwhizz Sat 09-Mar-13 21:41:34

'The norm' is exactly the same as saying 'normal' in the context'

.. no it isn't unless you have a very poor grasp of the English Language.'The norm' is a singular thing whilst lots of things might be considered normal

CoteDAzur Sun 10-Mar-13 10:18:46

Who is "they", LRD?

Can you see them now?

BoffinMum Sun 10-Mar-13 11:16:59

The only thing I am aware of schools promoting is not to take having children too lightly and to be aware four hands are a lot better than two from a domestic labour point of view in child rearing terms. Pretty uncontroversial. They also promote anti bullying and anti DV in relationships, safe sex and good communication in relationships. This all applies in a lot of contexts, of course.

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