AIBU to be seething about David Nicholson

(75 Posts)
LadyPessaryPam Tue 05-Mar-13 22:31:21

Sir David Nicholson has refused to resign. I think he should be sacked and then prosecuted. It scares me that someone like him is in charge of the NHS. He presided over Mid Staffs and all those deaths. He runs the NHS that issues gagging orders as a matter of course when honourable people whistleblow. He is an utter disgrace. What do these people have to do to get the old tin tack?

edam Mon 11-Mar-13 23:06:57

Sunday Times fingers David Nicholson for the deaths of babies due to crap care at Morecombe Bay trust as well.

Soloman is right about leadership and the lack of it - or the lack of old fashioned rigorous public service ethos. The targets introduced by the last government were well intentioned and did go some way to improving care. But they let senior managers get away with fidding the figures, and bullying each layer of the hierarchy underneath them to fiddle the figures. In the ambulance service, this meant, e.g., messing around with the 'clock start' and 'clock stop' to massage ambulance response times, rather than, I dunno, looking at the way things worked and seeing if there was anything that could actually be done to save a few lives...

ppeatfruit Fri 08-Mar-13 08:30:14

Yes well said SolomanDaisy and LadyPess and all!!

MaryMaryOnTheContrary Thu 07-Mar-13 22:25:46

Lady that's for sure. "Honey I Shrunk The Plebs"!

LadyPessaryPam Thu 07-Mar-13 21:20:26

Mary we are microscopic people TBH!!

williaminajetfighter Thu 07-Mar-13 18:53:23

Well said SolomanDaisy.

MaryMaryOnTheContrary Thu 07-Mar-13 18:49:51

LadyPessaryPam. Little people, you say? We're not even that big.

MaryMaryOnTheContrary Thu 07-Mar-13 18:48:50

It made me smile (ironically) watching the angst with which the Queen's food poisoning was covered, last week. I think had the poor soul been admitted to an average NHS hospital and not the Private King Edward VII, they'd soon get their fingers out and sort this mess!

Oh God, I'm ranting now....

LadyPessaryPam Thu 07-Mar-13 16:57:23

We are the little people, we don't matter to any of these elite bastards. How exactly do you join their club?

MaryMaryOnTheContrary Thu 07-Mar-13 16:50:47

flatbread. Yes, I read it. It amazes me though, that a private action will be taken against him. Isn't he accountable to someone/us/Jeremy Hunt? anyone!?

Disgraceful. It's like the banks. Buggered it all up, got bailed out by the tax payer and then massive payoffs/bonus to get them to leave. The BBC guy, only in post 3 months was it? Made an arse of it and got a shed load of cash "paid out" to step down (can't even remember his name).

SolomanDaisy Thu 07-Mar-13 11:42:44

I think part of the problem is that his style of new public management has thoroughly infected the whole UK public sector. DC will be surrounded by civil servants with similar approaches to management. I have seen how statistics get misused, so a problem is identified at the lowest level, it's massaged a little bit at the next level up to make it look better, then again at the next level, then again. By the time it gets to a mediocre CEX they'd be forgiven for believing they were running a world class organisation as it would be practically impossible to tell otherwise from a cursory look at the information they receive. Good senior managers challenge and check, but there are too many around who are mediocre to rubbish.

The inspection and monitoring regimes that Labour rightly introduced to challenge poor management sadly became giant games of hiding stuff and playing to the figures. Partly because they were also stuffed full of new public management-cursory-glance-at-the-data types. Higher salaries at senior levels have also changed the type of people who want to manage large public organisations, so the people who are really choosing the public sector because they care are being squeezed out. If you aren't there because you care and you only have artificial games to play to prove you're performing, it's not likely you will make the best decisions.

meddie Thu 07-Mar-13 11:27:52

Helponeanother you are pretty accurate a lot are older ward sisters who were moved up when re organisation and internal markets first started, to be service managers or clinical area managers, they had no management experience apart from running a ward. On the whole the majority I have had experience of are about as useful as a chocolate teapot, but they tow the management line so are useful to keep.
Every few years their role and title seem to change and I am still unsure what they actually do or achieve, except every so often they appear to be sent on management or team building courses and come back trying to implement whatever the latest big new thing is, usually it achieves nothing just causes upheaval and disruption.
I feel there is no long term vision at all, it feels like we are just firefighting constantly and lurching from one crisis to the next.

SirEdmundFrillary Thu 07-Mar-13 11:24:58

Help - talking nonsense in a super confident manner is what will get you on in life, it seems.

HelpOneAnother Thu 07-Mar-13 11:06:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flatbread Thu 07-Mar-13 10:54:43

Agree, Mary.

Did you see the article in the Telegraph about some ex-banker taking out a corporate manslaughter lawsuit against DN?

I am going to see if I can contribute in any way.

SirEdmundFrillary Thu 07-Mar-13 10:30:07

Quite, Mary.

SirEdmundFrillary Thu 07-Mar-13 10:24:16

I agree, William

Arf grin riviera

MaryMaryOnTheContrary Thu 07-Mar-13 09:21:59

He should go. Ex NHS professional here and if I'd done a crap job, endangered people's lives, done nothing when the death rate was rising fast, been paid well for (miss) managing the trust..... I'd have been suspended, investigated, struck off and sacked. End of.

Lifeisontheup Thu 07-Mar-13 08:32:21

There was an article in the Times last week by the shadow Health Secretary saying that it wasn't David Nicholson's fault and he had got him the job during the last government and he was a lovely person.

flatbread Thu 07-Mar-13 08:30:29

I personally am not wedded to one form of NHS.

Lots of different ways of organising it can work. But it requires strong leadership and vision.

DN and his type would bring any organisation to ruin. If they were put in charge of a highly successful Apple or Google, they would, no doubt, bring that down by appointing yes men and punishing competence.

It is not so much the structure of NHS I worry about, but the people appointed to leadership posts. I think there needs to be a major culling of management and bringing in outsiders with successful leadership experience

funnyperson Thu 07-Mar-13 07:11:21

I suspect a bill to fragment and privatise healthcare would have been pushed through whatever the government. The (misguided) policy to change to the American model of healthcare has been pursued by the DH for years.

The country is already in the grip of a two tier system for routine healthcare such as consultant advice or operations. This will continue and expand.

It is reverting back to the postcode lottery for cancer, heart attack and other acute care. Not just that but the care each practice cluster can or will purchase will be determined by the desire for more profit of individual practitioners. Big mistake. I do admire Labour for actively trying to reduce postcode inequalities and wish, for the sake of my children and their children, that this had continued.

meddie Wed 06-Mar-13 23:33:26

It was depressing the lack of public response to the health and social care bill. When did this country become so resigned and apathetic to accept whatever the government does,
but then there seemed to be a concerted effort within the media to either
a) not report it or
b) play down the implications of it.
not to mention the previous years of constantly reporting bad news stories about the NHS, while reducing frontline staff and resources, then wondering why it was failing.
Maybe i,m just cynical, but it feels to me very much like there is an agenda and Nicholson is part of it.
Tell people constant bad news about the NHS, makes privatisation so much easier to push through.
Its sad that people wont realise what they have lost until its gone and then it will be so fragmented across multiple private providers that it will be impossible to get back.

MrsTwgtwf Wed 06-Mar-13 23:03:03

I have to say that I was thinking: there is no-one better equipped to destroy the NHS altogether.

edam Wed 06-Mar-13 22:21:02

Meddie - I wondered why there wasn't more outrage about that when the health bill was going through originally. No-one seemed to notice, or care, that it was paving the way for the NHS to be privatized, bit by bit.

I wonder if it is terribly cynical to think the government is actually using this to promote privatization? Keep Nicholson in post, because he's a symbol of everything that's wrong; make the public angry so they are happy to ditch the NHS. A damaged chief executive, who owes his survival to his political masters, and who has demonstrated he couldn't care less how many people die as long as he pleases his masters, is quite useful to them...

meddie Wed 06-Mar-13 22:01:23

In some press it has yes I agree, But considering the implication of Section 75 ie privatisation of the NHS it should be major major news. yet I have seen more about the Queen having a poo.

renaldo Wed 06-Mar-13 21:50:45

we need a campaign to get rid of him
I work for the NHS and the target driven culture is ruining care and driving excellent staff into mental health crises. it's shit

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