ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
to be disgusted with Nick Clegg(145 Posts)
So now we know that our DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER knew he had a man involved at a senior level in his party who was rumoured to harass women and he failed to act but instead faciliatated a cover-up. Fabulous. What an example to the voters
'the whole murky world of the Patriarchy starts with this sort of crap - manpulation and bullying. It shows what many men still think of women, and it stinks' - yes that's exactly what I mean and I'm glad we agree on that.
don't know about england but in scotland the lib dems have the highest percentage of female councillors of any political party (still hellish low IMO - 27% rings a bell but i can't remember off the top of my head).
The Lib Dems have more female councillors, relative to other parties (still awfully low, as you say skrumle ). When you look at places where they in control, it still seems to be a Boys' Club in respect of those placed on the Cabinets of those councils, i.e. in the senior policy and budget positions.
The Tories are much worse, though. Labour a bit better, just.
I think my point is - to be a successful politician, what are you asked to close your eyes to?
fair enough - in scotland the westminster coalition pretty much wiped the libdems out in the may 12 elections, so there's not much power to be had by them!
Skrumle That's Rennard's legacy - he played the numbers game. Where do you get the most bang for your buck in terms of returning candidates to parliament and to councils?
And so the Lib Dems discovered knocking on doors and dropping letters round densely occupied English towns and cities, where people had previously been taken for granted, and where the electorate returned large numbers of MPs to Westminster relative to the campaigning efforts and costs involved.
Mind you the Lib Dems are bloody good at being constitency MPs and in local government.
With you, madelaine10.
My tuppence- we discredit women, and in particular the victims of- yes, real sexual assault when we start bundling an attempted grope (maybe?) a request for 'hotel-room visit' with rape, serious assault (legal def.) and serious coercion.
OK, I am 50. I have 'lived a little'. I am a professional and have on a few occasions, been asked to provide services beyond my this remit. I have strongly declined. And have gone on being able to have a professional relationship with the blokes concerned. I must add, none threw me down or forcibly drove me into a corner etc.
I feel the timing of these allegations is at best, embarrassingly transparent, and at worst, sets the real issue of real sexual abuse against women back 25 years, when we allow it to be wheeled out at election time. The scarlet woman's curse. We all dance to the puppet master's apparent, yet manufactured 'ire'! No one cares til it becomes politically expedient. Some may say 'Wheel it out all the time' but in reality we need to expose this stuff all the time assuming it is real sexual abuse, not a bloke misreading signals- whenever it occurs. And being put straight. End of.
We need to be careful.
As an Eastleigh voter, it pissed me off that Mrs Huhne (as she was) was quite happy to wear the speeding points when it suited her life's ambition; he was an arrogant twat to assume she was just 'the little woman' who'd wear it for him whilst he having an affair (WHAT AN IDIOT!)- but the circumstances suited her at the time and I really don't think it changes the Lib Dem's chances.
The public are so over sexual impropriety - yes we shouldn't be, but this old tool is wheeled out time and time again (RC cardinal about to go to Rome, anyone?)- IF ONLY the allegations were timely, properly raised then investigated, though that can't happen in a timely matter if ^it's not reported^- and didn't suddenly be predicated on 'how scared' the alleged 'victims' were to report. They're not children in a C18 work house, they were in C20 Britain. Working for a publicly accountable organisation.
Tansie, good luck with the UKIP vote, they'll probably do rather well in Eastleigh.
Working for a publicly accountable organisation My point earlier was that prospective political candidates don't actually work for the Parties; so they have no employee protection. They rely, to some degree, on the kindness of strangers.
Sexual harassment is any hint that your job is conditional upon being sexually obliging or available to someone senior to you. How is it not a serious issue akin to rape?
Tansie -- As to 'a bloke misreading signals' -- please tell me you are not serious.
Sexual harassment is any hint that your job is conditional upon being sexually obliging or available to someone senior to you
And I think sexual harassment also occurs where other people are in a culture where they believe that turning a blind eye to it happening to others is in their own best interests.
Count me as someone who feels horribly betrayed by Nick Clegg even before this horrible business. He can't be trusted at all and I hope the good people of his Sheffield constituency do the decent thing and boot him right out of politics at the next election. Also I bet David Cameron is relishing every second of this.
There are a lot of women in Conservative politics who tonight are probably wondering about telling their own tales.
After Eastleigh, though, if they want to keep their stars in the ascendant.
All good points made by LineRunner and mathanxiety.
The latest interview between Susan and Martha Kearney really highlights the implicit connection between the propositioning and Rennard's power. The initial leg-brushing was going on as they were talking about her career.
Worth noting, too, that Alison Smith hasn't said all she could have done about exactly what went on in Chris Rennard's house - what she's said openly is what Channel 4's lawyers have deemed it safe for her to say! She has indicated in tweets that saying more could result in her being sued.
(not that what we do know isn't bad enough)
Also know of teenager calling teacher a pervert recently
A mate of mine told me that a colleague had tapped a kid on the shoulder to get his attention, to which the cheeky bugger responded 'watch it Jimmy Saville!' which I thought was pretty quick wittted.
Anyone who looks to politicians of any hue for moral standards is wasting their time.
Why do we insist on being surprised when they turn out to be a bunch of tools and why should the alleged actions if one individual bring so many others into the furore.
Get the police investigating this and fix the economy, that's what I want these clowns doing, not thinking of soundbites on the hop because some smart arse journalist has made a tenuous link between the parties actually involved in the matter and parties that weren't.
You cannot prove who knew what, rumours are rumours and politicians are arrogant twats.
I agree with Madelaine10 and Tansie - they've said it better than I could. I also think that if the women in question were intending to be MPs they really didn't seem to have enough gumption to do the job
Not wanting to trade sex for advancement means they lack gumption Sorry I think that's really offensive.
I also think it will be possible to prove who knew what but I bet Clegg wishes it wasn't.
these women are aiming to MPs and they can't deal with this level of propositioning? what would they do if faced with heckling in the House of Commons - burst into tears?
Bizarre definition of gumption. And anyway, they - at least the ones that we know about - did successfully fend off his advances. But they were left in some cases with the fear that they'd stuffed up their political careers, because Chris Rennard was so powerful in terms of candidate recommendation and financing. Which is why the media has used the words casting couch (although in Alison Smiths case it doesnt apply because she had already stood down). You really think thats a good way to select MPs?
carlajean, would you sleep your way to advancement? If not, then don't expect it of other women!
vesela where did I say that ? I think being an mp is a difficult job and if this kind of thing puts you off perhaps you're not suited to it
But men don't have to consider whether they are put off by it. It is a burden which lands on the shoulders of women.
That effectively ensures a further barrier to women in positions of political power.
There is a level of sexual harassment of young men in politics, but the predatory behaviour doesn't come from women.
I just wish that for once someone would say, "OK I did it. I'm sorry."
I'm sick and tired of all this fudge and people saying that lessons have been learned.
How amusing to see the Lib Dems moaning about "dirty tricks". They've been at it for 30 years since Southwark and Bermondsey when they turned dirty tricks into an art form.
They are political shape-shifters, opportunists completely devoid of principles. In every seat they've ever contested they will pretend to be "nicer" than the Tories, more Labour than Labour, more independent than the independent. For decades they promised to deliver whatever it took to get elected - and it worked!
They are now in government, facing a future where they can no longer rely on the protest votes which served them so well in 2010 when they could still make absurd promises they could never keep, simultaneously appearing more left-wing than Labour and less nasty than the Tories.
I'm absolutely delighted that the hypocrisy and opportunism of these thugs in suits is finally being exposed, and I'd put money on them losing at least 45 seats in 2015.
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