NSPCC 'I promise' dvd. Anyone else seen it? (non accidental injury to children)

(88 Posts)
PictureMeInThese Wed 06-Feb-13 10:19:22

I originally posted this in chat but got no response.
My sister has just a lovely new snuggly baby smile
I picked her, BIL and DN up from the hospital a few hours after she gave birth. We were waiting for her to be discharged when the mw came in and explained she'd like to show DS and BIL a DVD from the NSPCC for research (IIRC).
So we watched it. It was mostly interviews with parents of babies talking about coping mechanisms for coping with crying babies. It also showed (quite graphically) what happens to a baby when it is shaken.
Now, I think the NSPCC are great, but we were sat open mouthed after watching this.
Don't get me wrong it was a well done film done sensitively and I can see that it would be a useful resource for new parents, but DN was 4 hours old. Parents still on a high after giving birth and then being shown this. I thought the timing was completely inappropriate.
After they'd watched the dvd they had to sign a form with 'I promise' on the top. I think this was the consent for the research, but the way it was presented it felt very much like they were signing a form promising not to shake their baby.
I don't know, i just felt very uncomfortable about it. AIBU?

middymee Tue 30-Jul-13 13:57:56

No idea! I'm assuming they are seeing if there's a link between non accidental head injury and education level!! I just think there's a group of people who will NEVER cross that line where they harm their child, but there will always be a group that will. I'm not wholly convinced that here in the UK it will make a big difference. As I said before, there's a huge lack of support & care in the US where the initial research was done which is why I think they've had success with it there.

MamaChubbyLegs Tue 30-Jul-13 00:20:28

Middy shock how are they going to use that information?

I'm not against the video or the pledge actually, as long as it is fully explained, appropriately timed, counselled and optional, but that is shocking.

middymee Mon 29-Jul-13 22:46:43

Sorry I meant to add that I'm a midwife. And another objection I have to it is the form that parents are asked to sign, also asks for 'level of education'!!!

middymee Mon 29-Jul-13 22:44:56

Nellyjelly....there is no postnatal care in the US. Women basically leave hospital with a new baby and see no healthcare professional until 6wks post delivery. Their rates of non accidental are much, much higher than the UK to start with so obviously, introducing the DVD WILL make a difference.

MiaowTheCat Tue 09-Jul-13 22:19:36

Also I hate that it's basically asking parents to pledge 'I promise not to accidentally kill my baby'.

I hate this whole pledge-signing thing that seems to be coming in among all those working with parents these days... local children's centre had taken over the baby group with a child safety session the other week - and were basically bugging everyone to make a big thing of signing a pledge to do X Y and Z at the end of the session (it was stuff like "I promise to never leave hot drinks in the reach of my child" and "I promise my child will always sleep in a cot and never with me" and stuff) and I said I wasn't going to sign something that was basically treating me like an idiot and a child murderer in waiting. (I didn't fight the "co-sleeping will kill your baby" routine going on - we have a co-sleeping cot attached to the bed - as they're really zero tolerance line on it in this county so it's not worth the hassle)

Give it a couple of weeks and there'll be something asking us to sign a promise that we'll put suncream on our child and then another one pledging to read to our child every night - just gets my back up.

JordiBoo Tue 09-Jul-13 22:01:12

I watched the whole ten minute video clip at an antenatal session last week. Yes, the content is distressing, but I think that's the point to make people realise that it only takes a moment to potentially snap.

I had my first two in a national health service style, general teaching hospital overseas. I was shown a very poor video, (with similar intent but poorly produced) before I was discharged from the postnatal ward. I felt a bit offended at the time. I think the NSPCC video is better shown with partners at an antenatal parent education session.

Here is the link to the project and the NSPCC video

Bue Sun 16-Jun-13 20:18:10

We are supposed to ask parents to watch this before they leave the postnatal ward, as part of the discharge procedure, then ask them to fill out a very brief questionnaire. I always felt a bit weird about it, but after having watched it myself I don't ask anyone to watch it anymore. It is an interesting DVD but the timing is utterly inappropriate.

Also I hate that it's basically asking parents to pledge 'I promise not to accidentally kill my baby'. hmm

nellyjelly Sun 16-Jun-13 19:53:36

US research shows 47% reduction in injuries related to head shaking after a similiar programme. Good enough for me.

plinkyplonks Sun 16-Jun-13 15:26:36

Apologies.. I was replying to TheBigJessie

plieadianpony Sun 16-Jun-13 15:17:33

What are you disagreeing with plinkyplonks ? Sorry but am not clear...

plinkyplonks Sun 16-Jun-13 15:14:16

Sorry but I disagree... discussing your thoughts on parents and children you have dealt with is passing judgement. Funny in these threads we get people who just so happen to work for <insert health profession here>. Small world huh? Anyhow .. this thread has been derailed because the OP was asking if it was unreasonable to show the video. Not an opportunity to argue who deserves to be a parent and who doesn't.

mirai Sun 16-Jun-13 15:04:01
Fillyjonk75 Sun 16-Jun-13 14:54:44

While abuse is horrible actually only a minority of parents are abusive.

Like becoming a crack or heroin addict, only a few people do that. What next? A form from your GP which you have to sign to say "I promise not to take crack".

A note from the police saying "I promise not to commit murder."

Where does it end? Stupid. Just give the advice. Offer a DVD if people want it, explaining the content could be upsetting.

Sledgehammer...nut.

plieadianpony Sun 16-Jun-13 14:38:53

Birdsgottafly i agree of course people are ashamed because 'it isn't nice to think that your parent couldn't parent' there is a massive stigma for a child/young person/adult.

They are also ashamed because abuse in itself is shaming. Shame 'holds' people in the grip of abusive relationships and situations. Abusers use shame to victimise.

Breaking free of shame can enable people to break free of abuse. Not just the immediate situation, but a lifetime of abuse and exploitation that can follow if the cycle isn't broken.

Naming what has happened, being believed and and being shown that the perpetrator was wrong can begin to free a person of shame. It can enable them to go on and believe they can build healthy relationships and that being treated with respect and dignity is not only possible but an absolute entitlement.

What I am saying is that if more people were confident enough to say ..you know what i was abused and it was wrong. And could stand up shame free, it would help pave a pathway for others and reduce judgement.

We need role models for people who are stepping out of abusive situations.

Yes, we need labels for legislative reasons but is it really appropriate for to be wheeling out literature with titles like 'are you a Care Leaver' Young people leaving care have few established systems with which offer foundation for identity. referring to them as Care Leavers' is labeling and de personalizing. How we use language really impacts on people and how vulnerable people identify.

I completely agree with what you say about Mother and Baby Units/Attachment etc. Young women may thrive in those environments then the systems in place are unable to counter the damage already done. Early intervention is really important BUT again. How do you reach those people without labelling them as potential abusers and balancing that with their human rights?

It is complex as you say. A bottom up system is always going to be better than top down reactionary services and interventions.

The DVD that is shown, is important information and again, should be in the public domain BUT there are ways to approach it.

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about unison abuse / neglect cases? I am guessing you are referring to Social Workers under investigation following serious case reviews?

IneedAsockamnesty Sun 16-Jun-13 14:33:51

Miaow.

How did you express your distress? And did they tell you that's why they referred?

I don't agree Pony.

People are ashamed because it isn't nice to think that your parent couldn't parent and there are still ignorant people that judge you on your background and not the person that you have managed to be, despite your abuse/neglect.

Care Leavers have to be labeled, to be included in the law, as do "relevent young people", no diffrent to any label we need to direct funding.

The key is supposed to be early intervention, that isn't happening enough. Girls and women who have attachment issues to everyone in their lives, need extensive therapies. They don't just need a stable environment, in the form of Mum and Baby units/Foster placements ,as often thought. We shouldn't wait untilthey have problems parenting their own children until those therapies are offered.

I think that you are looking at it to simplisically, there are lots of complex situations happening in unison in neglect/abuse cases.

MiaowTheCat Sun 16-Jun-13 13:13:09

I'd be livid if they'd foisted that DVD on me post-natally. Thankfully, after spending all their budget on crappy branded plastic kiddies teaching clocks to turn the hands to the next time they were going to come and check on you... they had no budget for DVD players.

As for the comment of "how would you feel being picked out as a potential abuser just having given birth" in terms of targeting it.

I, sadly can answer that (I was referred to social services for getting distressed about the possibility of a forceps delivery - all I wanted was them to note my pain free gap to not wreck my SPD and that was the bastards' response)... it is the most utterly hideous, destructive, horrific thing; it's probably the easiest way going to alienate parents you want to reach and make them distrustful of any child-protection/health/surveilance related services; and it's probably a sure-fire ticket to ending up with post-natal mental health disorders (I ended up with a cracking anxiety one) because you feel like you're being watched and are terrified of doing anything "wrong" to slip up and be under scrutiny. So yep - I could see targeting it being utterly utterly destructive really. I certainly have zero trust for the system now - and I'm a relatively confident (or at least, good at bullshitting confidence), educated, articulate woman able to express and stand up for myself - imagine how it would feel if you weren't able to do all that and got picked out as the target group to be pulled aside for a DVD screening?! Talk about starting off on the wrong foot!

I object to the increasing trend to view all parents as some kind of brand of idiot child-abusers in waiting, to be scrutinised, have their every movement logged, distrusted as the default position on them and everything else that seems to be happening more and more - without any right for anyone to dare say it's gotten to be very very unpleasant because if they dare then they get shouted down with "Oh but if it saves another Baby P then you MUST be ok with this" - no, actually I'm NOT ok with being viewed as some kind of criminal in waiting actually.

There's no need to be upsetting, preying on hormonal, vulnerable women plugging them into a DVD pretty much as soon as their placenta's popped out - that's kind of disgusting that people think it's ok... Bounty women are the target of vitriol, but vile emotional blackmail and reducing these same women to tears - that's fine.

plieadianpony Sun 16-Jun-13 12:33:34

Yep, Abuse should not be tiptoed around. I completely agree. It is a poor situation that professional people that are trained to intervene are still tiptoeing around it. Children need the message that what their parent has done is wrong. That they have harmed them and they need protecting. Not some woolly intervention that is confusing.

But our society still fails to offer a solution. So all those kids that exist in that grey unclear boundary are lost. Ones who have been through the care system and had no resolution and not been able to find their place in the world I honestly believe they are as oppressed as any other minority.

Labelling them 'Care Leavers' disgusts me. (but that is another rant)

I talk about this alot with DH. We have said wouldn't it be great if people who have been abused could stand up and name it publically without shame, much more often. It would give power to children and adults and take alot of power away from abusers. Abuse is still hidden in so many peoples families, prushed under the carpet, not spoken about. Why should children feel ashamed? they only feel ashamed because no one has given a clear message that it is not o.k, they have been harmed.

*"Everyone has the right to a family life...^UNLESS they harm or abuse^."

Thank you. Never forget that proviso. Every time it's forgotten, how culture takes a step back*

We are STILL in a position in our culture though where we haven't really taken enough of a step forward. The uprising of the angry lynchmob culture (see daily mail) isn't a step forward. It's something else. I am not advocating liberalism, i just think there needs to be a clear and balanced view. Thanks for the discussion.

ComposHat Sun 16-Jun-13 12:30:04

I have no time for the NSPCC. They seem to function as a lobby group and seem to spend the vast part of their budget undertaking expensive marketing campaigns.

They are way down my list for charitable giving.

TheBigJessie Sun 16-Jun-13 12:13:48

"Everyone has the right to a family life...^UNLESS they harm or abuse^."

Thank you. Never forget that proviso. Every time it's forgotten, how culture takes a step back.

They might feel differently to you hearing some people shouldn't be parents about their own parents. (where do i fit in the world then? i haven't found a (safe) place yet?) How is that kind of statement productive to them or to a child stuck in an abusive family environment? It's not really. I've hear people say it who are in a professional position to do something about it and NOT effect any change. It just one of those rhetorical things people say....

You have the right to that opinion, but it is my experience that people tiptoe around the issue so much that victims never get their abuse recognised. It is always "well, she's your mum" (even from professional staff- I got a phone-call a few days later from the domestic violence unit after she'd turned up extremely drunk and violent and refused to leave my home. "I understand you've been having problems with your mum". If it had been an abusive father, do you think they'd have said "dad"? I don't.). People have their actual reality denied to them. It is assumed you must work on the relationship at all costs, and it is your duty to yourself and them.

One of the most wonderful things for anyone who has been abused, whether parent, spouse or any other human being is to be believed and for other people to confirm to you that it was actually the abuser's fault things were like that. Some people are banned for life from pet ownership. Because they should not own pets. Children are not worth less than non-human animals. Some people should not be parents.

"some people shouldn't be parents"

I can safely say that i have met many people, both in my work and every day life that, that statement applies to.

In some cases, people will always be considered "a risk" and the judge in his summing up at the end of a case, will say that "this person should never have residency of a child".

No one is obligated to have residency of a child (i would never use the glib "abort" statement), every child has the right to grow up in a nurturing environment.

That is why "Parental Rights" was changed to "Responsibility".

I have just become a Step Nan and as many know, am a CP SW.

The amount of people who do not know the dangers of throwing a baby around, astounds me.

I see people throwing young children, from a couple of months old, up in the air and catch them, yes, it makes them laugh, but, it could also cause brain damage.

My relatives', other Nan and Aunt, both recommended, throwing the baby over her shoulder and letting him "bounce" back down onto her knee, to wind him shock. Neither had heard of shaken baby syndrome, or similar injuries.

I had bought them lots of books on baby care and development, thanks to many telling her that she didn't need all these, or any classes, she only learn't want she read.

Older people forget that we are no longer surrounded by babys, as we once were, we do not pick up baby care, by example, any more.

She went to baby massage on my recommendation, although, again,people were putting her off. It helped her gain confidence by having a MW on hand to ask questions to, in regards to handling.

I always, say, but anyone working in Children's services, will agree, that the public do not hear about the amount of children that are disabled by their care givers, many, through ignorance.

We cannot force people to read the books that they are given, or go to the classes, so really, i don't know what the answer is.

You wouldn't get in a car, to drive without knowing the basics,i don't understand why everyone seems so against knowing the basics about baby care. Some of it doesn't come from instincts, especially when the care is given by wider family and you have a Mum whi isn't confident and doesn't like confrontation, as is often said across this board.

plieadianpony Sun 16-Jun-13 11:59:00

Sorry to offend you TheBigJessie

Everyone has the right to a family life...UNLESS they harm or abuse.

Yup, some people are not equipped but sweeping judgments like some people shouldn't be parents (coming from a person in a professional type of role) sounds really judgmental to me!

i wholeheartedly believe that abuse should be named and kids should be supported to name it for what it is and that it is not o.k. Loads of kids in who have been abused don't explicitly get that message, it is blurred and that is really wrong and damaging in the long term. Social Care fails loads and loads of children.

Its great that you have been able to stand with a clear view.

Load of people can't. Those kids that have returned home after leaving care to live with shit families who exploit and abuse them or kids who desperately want contact with their abuser, because whatever has happened, they still identify the relationship as probably the only significant one they have got.

They might feel differently to you hearing some people shouldn't be parents about their own parents. (where do i fit in the world then? i haven't found a (safe) place yet?) How is that kind of statement productive to them or to a child stuck in an abusive family environment? It's not really. I've hear people say it who are in a professional position to do something about it and NOT effect any change. It just one of those rhetorical things people say....

Sense of scale covers a broad spectrum.

I DO Not believe "you need to be more understanding", "S/he's busy at the moment", "you should always make allowances for your parents because they give you life", "she gave birth to you" any of that crap!!

I am so so sorry that you had to tolerate that from a vicar. The church's collusion (whether right or wrongly) with abuse (evangelical churches) absolutely disgusts me. I have no sense of scale in that sense. Evangelical Christianity disgusts me and should be not be allowed.

I am very sorry that I offended you TheBigJessie. If more people could separate themselves from abusive situations more children could be removed from abusive situations rather than the cycle which sometimes perpetuates itself.

Thanks for making me look at things from a different view.

Startail Sun 16-Jun-13 11:58:08

I do not give money to the NSPCC as they behave as if you are their property from the second you have a child.

The NSPCC have got to advertise somehow or they'd never get enough money coming in. That's what it's about. They have wages to pay. I don't doubt that there are decent people working there, but the ones running it day to day will be no different to say the directors of Nestle or BP.

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