to feel hurt for my fatherless son

(130 Posts)
spiritedaway Mon 04-Feb-13 21:24:04

I have 4 dc- the youngest is 2 the eldest 10. The youn gest 2 have no contact with their father. My Dp wants to move in and be a dad to my little 2. He has shown great commitment over the last year during a fairly long distance relationship. He would like a child of his own. To not have one is a deal breaker. I am currently a single mum of 4. I would love a baby together but i need to weigh against needs of the other kids. I feel like he is saying my little 2 are not enough and would almost be downgraded by his own child. He saying he just doesn't want to always feel like an outsider looking in. I am over 40. I also fear becoming a single mum of 5. I asked him what if i say no, he replied he would leave. If i try, but we can't then he says that would be ok. Is this more like wants me to prove something to him? I really feel it is crunch time.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 16:37:17

Thanks Flow. . i might just wait till the kids grow up and go live in a caravan with the dog smile

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 16:53:06

No love, it's not about giving up, or waiting till the kids grow up, it's about making sure you are safe, strong and the best/happiest you can be.

I'm 44, I've had to do all that I suggested to get where I am today. In many ways being in a DV relationship, while horrific at the time, has forced me to look at myself, challenge what others told me I was/am, telling them all to Jeff Off and now I'm stronger and happier than I've ever been in my life.

If ANYONE said anything followed with 'or I'll leave you' I'd tell them to go right there and then. And I'd mean it too.

I've got rid of at least half my family, as they set me up for it all, the Ex is toast and thousands of miles away. I'm seeing someone for about a year now, but could never have done without the Freedom Prog, without counselling and also a great deal of toughening up through a light bit of twunt sifting internet dating.

The transition man idea is really empowering. I know that I adore my boyf, but if it's not meant to be, I'll end it and know that I had something to learn from him, to be able to move on to the next. I don't have the pressure of fertilty, as I don't think I can have any more DC, and athough it'd be nice for DS to have a brother, a step-sibling'd be just as good if not better in some ways.

YOU are the most important person in your life, and also in the lives of your DC. They will always thinlk you're good enough, n o matter what.

You just have to believe it too.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 16:56:53

I was a victim. I was vulnerable. No harm in admitting that, it keeps us strong.

It's what you do with it next.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 17:03:42

i did ask him if it was a deal breaker. . he gave me his answer and also referenced my ex asking why i gave so much to the abusive person yet don't think he himself is good enough to have a child with. I just point out i left the abusive person and actually have a restraining order and a family court ruling to keep him away. Manipulative?

NicknameTaken Tue 05-Feb-13 17:08:23

I don't like the tone of that conversation, spirited. Sorry, just dashing out to collect DD, but that would give me pause.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Tue 05-Feb-13 17:09:15

OP... your scenario would scare me witless. I don't think you'd be a single mum to 5 because it sounds as if he doesn't have a child of his own, he'll find someone else he can have one with. That seems all important to him. I think I would be having a very clear chat about what constitutes a 'try' or not. Do your feelings, your childrens' feelings come into play here?

I suppose then that if you do conceive you'll just run the gamut of all relationships, the same as everybody else. Good luck with it all.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 17:25:30

thanks all. .

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 18:32:30

He really is 30 isn't he? (and that's the most positive thing I have to say about that conversation of yours)

He doesn't get it (or want to) you don't give to an abuser, they demand, they take, they guilt trip, they manipuate, threaten and control.

I do not like him seemingly punishing you for the past, your ex etc.

If nothing else, he ought to understand that it's YOUR decision too.

Sadly, there is a lesson to be learned here, and to then move on.

This is where you learn to trust your instincts, no matter how hard it is to hear them. This is where you learn that your family that Is already here DOES need to come first, and that you won't be convinced otherwise.

He's not good enough. He's not a partner. He's a PITA.

If you move him in, he'll think he has more rights to dictate your life.

He's wanting you to try harder than you did with an abuser. He wants you to give him MORE. A good man would want less and would want to give YOU more.

I have a feeling you traded a grade 9 abuser for a grade 6. He's not as bad, but he's at least 10 years behind the last one.

Think love. Just think. That's all we need you to do. The answer will come to you.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 18:41:50

Sorry, I was a bit harsh.

He's not a 6, more like a 3. but it's still not good enough, you need a ZERO percent manipulator.

They're out there. Promise you!

Would it help you to come post on the Emotional Abuse Support Thread? There are lots that are no longer in relationships that post, to help them understand, recover and heal. Your ex sounds terrible, you could do with being somewhere you were understood.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 18:55:22

Thanks for the direction Hissy. . i will definitely have a look. Tbh we have frequently had conversations which end in me justifying and explaining why i didn't leave the abusive partner sooner. Part of me is like, Fuck you. . i don't need to explain myself and part of me thinks many people don't understand the dynamics so i will try to explain. If i pull him up on something unrelated he will bring the ex up and say things like, how come you give me grief for xyz when you forgave HIM over and over for worse. I don't know if this is unjust, unfair or just completely thoughtless-or worse? Does it sound like a tactic? I have pointed out that it is pretty sick to think the more abuse you take the more you love someone.

BegoniaBampot Tue 05-Feb-13 18:56:42

i think you possibly are being harsh. you seem to be judging this guy on your own experiences. he has been honest and at least letting the op know where he stands. trying for kids is a deal breaker for many people. saying that, he sounds immature if he can't understand the dilema the op is in and given the op's position and past experoences, i'd probably have to say no. too much to risk and lose.

DioneTheDiabolist Tue 05-Feb-13 19:00:09

Ding. Ding. Ding.

Do you hear that? That's the sound of the alarm bells going off in my head when I read your 17:03 post OP. That conversation was manipulative emotional abuse and blackmail. Do you really want to spend your life with a man who says: you did it for him if you don't do it for me it means that you think xyz about me.

HildaOgden Tue 05-Feb-13 19:07:27

It's worse than thoughtless...it's a form of cruelty.

Next he'll be saying you must have enjoyed it (the abuse).

Do not move this man into your home.It won't end well sad

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 19:08:54

begonia, appreciate your comment, but this guy's NOT doing this stuff the right way. He is guilt tripping spirited, and demanding more than her ex is a giveaway.

Seeing as they all behave pretty much the same, it's fair to say that anyone who's seen this type of behaviour is well able to spot it.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 19:12:38

My ex used to say the same kind of thing about my ExH. It was right back at the start, so it's possible Matey's warming up.

As I said, it takes on average 2 years for abusive behaviour to come to the fore enough to be noticed. Stuff like this is often a toe dip.

Only time will tell. But tbh, I don't think he's worth waiting for.

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 19:15:35

Out of interest spirited what WAS this guy's answer when you asked him about it being a deal breaker?

BarbarianMum Tue 05-Feb-13 19:25:42

<<He said he'd leave if you don't agree to trying for a child. I don't like this, it's manipulative.>>

Hissy I agree with a lot of what you have said, but not this. If having children is important to a person then it would be really, really stupid not to make your intended partner for life clear about that.

I love my dh, and prior to marriage we had no way of knowing if we'd be able to have children. But if he wasn't sure if he had even wanted to try then I would never have married him. If he had already had several children and therefore didn't want more then that'd have been his decision to make but mine would have been to look for another life partner.

The OP is in a tough position and I am by no means saying she should have a child with this man but whether her decision is yes, no way or 'maybe in a while' she should be honest with him.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 19:32:54

He said if it wasn't even a possibility then we would break up. . i asked what if we couldn't have a child and if he really wanted his own his odds would be much better with someone younger. He said if i wanted his baby and we tried but failed that would be different. I told him that boiled down to intent rather than the need for a child. He agreed. He also went on to ask why he didn't deserve to be part of the human race like everyone else, by this i assumed he meant procreation. He said my having children with the ex had robbed him of his chance to have a family.

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 19:35:14

to be fair this conversation began with him asking for something to go on, like plans to move in together in 6 months for example as he feels in limbo. Apparently he always feels like the disposable person

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 19:37:11

Barbarian. . i do agree and i know many women who have based decisions on this

HildaOgden Tue 05-Feb-13 19:57:30

'He said my having children with the ex had robbed him of his chance to have a family'

Wow.Just Wow.

Do you really,honestly believe that he won't throw such a resentful statement back in your face over the years?And that he will love the children of your abusive ex as much as he would love his own bio child?

You're deluding yourself.The more I read what he's been saying to you,the more sinister it gets.

PoppyAmex Tue 05-Feb-13 20:30:51

"also referenced my ex asking why i gave so much to the abusive person yet don't think he himself is good enough to have a child with."

"He said my having children with the ex had robbed him of his chance to have a family."

"Apparently he always feels like the disposable person"

He seems to have serious self-esteem issues and all this sounds extremely manipulative.

I'm sorry, OP but if I had 4 DC at home I just wouldn't risk bringing someone like this into their lives (and mine).

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 20:47:10

Oh I absolutely agree with the 'he wants a child, I don't' thing. It isn't fair on him if there isn't a desire to have more DC, but in OP's defense (and as cack-handed as it sounds) what does he expect from a woman in her 40's with 4 kids already?

Surely the writing IS on the wall there that it's highly likely that she won't want anymore.

If that is the case, the kindest thing is to let him move on and find someone with whom he has a greater chance of having a family of his own.

I think him demanding that she try, while not apparently taking that much interest in getting his hands dirty, and moreover threatening her with being dumped is the key issue here.

He wants her to 'prove' her love for him by ttc a 5th child.

When she's done that' I think we'll all guarantee that there will be other tests. There always are when it starts like this.

spirited he's threatened that unless you try to have his child, he's off.

Normal men, in these circumstances, with more than a single IQ point don't do that.

You have to see that this guy isn't the kind of guy you should ever allow to adopt your DC?

As shit as my ex is, my DS is mine, and mine alone, I'd never consider having another man adopt him.

I think, in order for you to regain power in this relationship that you call his bluff, tell him you're not going to try and that he's welcome to leave. Don't even blink when you do it. You are more than strong enough to follow this through.

There are distinct advantages of NOT being 30, and one of them is being able to run rings around those that are.

grin

Hissy Tue 05-Feb-13 21:03:39

The way that this man says it is key.

If he were to say, 'if having DC together is not on the horizon, then tbh I can't see a longterm future for us' I'd not bat an eyelid. He'd be right, if DC were important to him.

If he's been quoted fairly closely, which on the face of it, he appears to have been, then he's manipulating now.

He's tapping into spirited's apparent fear (perhaps in his head only) of being alone. So many people think it's the worst thing on earth to be a single mum. At his age, with all the apparent ignorance that seems to go with it, why would he think any differently?

If you stand your ground, and state that you are happy as you are (if that is the case), or if you need more time to think, but that you're not sure, then he'll be able to see that you have an opinion, that it's valid and he can make the choice for himself.

Fwiw, I think it'll throw him a little, he won't be expecting it, and I'm sure he'll trot out more shite about the Ex.

I'd call him out on that tbh too. I'd say that the ex is none of his concern, that for him to compare himself is ill-advised and you'll not have any more of it.

What's his relationship history spirited? what's he had in the way of proper relationships? How many women has he been out with seriously?

spiritedaway Tue 05-Feb-13 21:57:01

I think about 3 longish term serious relationships. . he lived with his previous girlfriend, same age. She wanted to settle down- marriage and kids but he didn't. They ended amicably although she did turn up upset a couple of times and he was kind about it.

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