Mumsnet Talk

You should be angry OP, but maybe not violated (because that makes you a victim of something when you weren't really too much in this case, if you see what I mean).

You should report the incident to the police and the bus company, and if anything similar happens to you in future you need to try to be firm enough with yourself to report the harrassment to the bus driver.

Do you use the bus regularly, are you especially sensitive given the India situation? I'm not trying to belittle what you have suffered, just asking because I have felt intimidated at times on my regular bus route and then realised I was making too much of a situation.

uh, pretty sure the OP was a victim of sexual assault and harassment flowery

As everyone else has said - of course you weren't over-reacting. On threads like this in the past, people have often said what made the situation doubly awful, was that other people didn't support them. Encountering a bunch of arses is one thing. Discovering that (presumably) decent people don't stand up for you is very unsettling.

If it makes you feel better, I AM quite a confrontational person in general, and on a very similar occasion (in a train, not a bus), reacted exactly the same way - subtly blamed myself, thought that as everyone else hadn't reacted, maybe I was over-reacting, and just felt very intimidated and weirdly ashamed. In retrospect, I was shocked I didn't call them on it, but at the time, it just didn't feel possible.
Like snazzy said, what it did for me was make me a rehearse a 'what would I do next time" scenario - something that I was comfortable I could do. What do you think would work for you, if there was ever a next time?

OP is absolutely valid in her feelings of being violated. Absolutely.

She was inappropriately touched without her consent. That makes sexual assault.

Those men did this deliberately to make her uncomfortable because they could. Because people will walk around telling the poor women they harrass that they are "making too much of a situation". Ffs.

YANBU and you're not over-reacting. Please don't blame yourself for not reacting in the 'right' way.

The reaction of the other people on the bus is meaningless. I think numerous studies have shown that crowds of people won't react to things like that. In fact, the more people, the less likely they are to react. That's because they're all looking to one another to see what they should do. Nobody does anything and they sit still. Really - studies have been set up where someone feigns distress and most people don't do anything.

And, they may have been scared to get involved. It sucks, but they may have been.

I'm sorry this happened to you. What you experienced is actually very common. I read a blog about it about a week ago, and the comments are heart-breaking. Such things used to happen to me and I think they happen to most young women.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/laura-bates/everyday-sexual-assault_b_1847497.html

beamagazine.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/sexual-assault-and-me-and-so-many-others/

That is awful and I would have felt really shaken.

I think that when everybody on the bus ignored it and didn't say anything, it wasn't that they were approving of what the men were doing or didn't see anything wrong with it, but they were maybe too scared to do anything incase the group turned on them next.

katy this is called the Bystander Effect, you should read about Kitty Genovese and the study by Darley and Latane.

Catchingmockingbirds Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking about.

It's just a weird herd instinct thing in people. I only talked about it because it seems the OP wondered if the reaction of other people meant that she was crazy for being upset and I wanted to assure her that that was not the case.

I think you were sexually assaulted. The police will listen to what you say and they will contact the bus company about CCTV.

I was recently assaulted and have been hugely impressed with how far the police were prepared and able to pursue their inquiries. It really helped to feel that I was being taken seriously.

I agree that the OP feels that she has been violated and is therefore angry. That is why I suggested she report the incident to the police and the bus company.

Bystander effect compounded by news articles of being being stabbed fir standing up for themselves or others. Your DH sounds fab OP

YANBU.
I was working and went to a bar after to kill time while i waited for my train and i had 4 men, one after the other, literally jump on me, trying to shove their tongues in my mouth, draping themselves all over me, grabbing at me. I felt disgusting and dirty TBH.

I have been sexually assaulted by a random man in the street - He grabbed me and put his fingers inside me. But the men in the bar left me feeling worse, I think because there were people around and no one did anything, It made me feel like they weren't doing anything wrong, whereas the man in the street, my friend saw him (male friend) and went mad at him so it kind of felt like yeah, you know you're in the wrong.

Don't know if that makes sense.

flowery, yes I used to use the bus daily until I had DD. Now its only the occasional Saturday. I'd become accustomed to incidences similar to this, but without the touching - that was what threw me. I thought about reporting it to the bus driver, but considering the volume they were using, there is absolutely no chance that he wasn't aware of it already.

As for what I'd do in future, I don't know - that's what's disturbing me. The bus mostly goes through deserted lanes, and there is one every hour, so getting off isn't an option. And you obviously can't count on the other passengers to help. So... I don't know.

I think

I think you reacted the right way. They clearly wanted a rise and I think things would have got worse if you'd argued it.
Try not to over think your reaction xxxx

YANBU at all.

i would report this to the plice. assholes get away with this shit way too much.

i wouldn't have been able to hold my cool in your shoes and would have flipped out completely, screeching at them and turned myself into a right spectacle. i know i would because that's how i've reacted when similar happened to me in a club. shockingly i was told (by 'friends' ) that i over reacted to having a stranger's hand put up my dress!

I think in future you could move right to the front by the driver, even go and speak to him or her and tell her/him you are being harassed and that you need some support. That should be a fairly low key way to keep creeps at bay without having to face a big confrontation. You should be able to ride the bus without being worried

OK, so some options for you ito what you could do which wouldn't involve calling them directly if you don't think you could face it - I'm sure others can think of some more

1. Ignore and 'remove yourself'. You moved - great idea. Takes you out of the firing line. Could you also make a phone call/get your headphones out? Then you are 'out' of their space and whatever they say can't hurt you. And once they realise you aren't listening, they may well loose interest.

2. Enlist help: Could you single out one person to help you? This could be the driver (he may well ignore if he can get away with it, but might be different if you appeal directly to him, even just asking if you can sit near him and/or asking if the incident would be videoed) or it could be a 'safe'/engaged looking passenger. Someone who catches your eye, or just looks like they'd help. Bystander effect is lessened when people feel appealed to directly - as others have said, the more people there are, the easier it is for all of them to keep out. You could just ask to sit next to them as you are feeling uncomfortable, they'll understand, and hopefully help.

And this is what I'd love to do... Get your phone out, look like you're making a call. Proceed to 'report' an incident of sexual harrassment on the xx bus, describe the woman (you) as if you're an onlooker. Make a lot of "yes, that's right. That's brilliant, I'll be looking out for you" type noises. Don't think I'd ever have the nerve though!

When it's been verbal only, what's your approach?

You are not overreacting at all I hate that no one stepped in to help you, wish I was surprised though

DizzyZebra, really sorry to hear about those experiences, and yes, I know exactly what you mean - the way others react makes a big difference afterwards

I doubt that anything can be done - I have no idea who they were, and no proof that the touching happened. I do want to report it though - mainly just to feel that I've done something about it and contributed to statistics to help show that these things are a problem, iyswim. Police or bus company or both?

I was once chased down a street in San Francisco by a homeless guy yelling "DON'T YOU RUN FROM ME! I HAVEN'T HAD SEX IN 18 YEARS!" He chased me into a bar and chased me around and around the pool table. Nobody helped me. They pretended they didn't see me at all. It was like the Twilight Zone.

To be fair, when I was actually running down the street, I was laughing because it seemed kind of funny (I have an absurd sense of humour). But, it ceased to be funny when the whole bar pretended I wasn't there.

funnypeculiar, my approach when it has only been verbal has been, as you suggest, 'removing myself' with headphones or phone, which has previously worked. I did the same in this case, but they continued on regardless. I guess, as you say, the best thing to do would be to move up near the driver and essentiallyforce him to stop ignoring the situation.

Thank you for all threplies s - gives me a bit more faith that my perspective isn't completely skewed...