Mass Immigration, scare mongering??

(317 Posts)
Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:09:24

Am I being unreasonable to think it is a problem or am I just falling prey to media propaganda? The whole EU debate seems to have highlighted it but I would like to understand it better.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 12:00:00

There is a problem in the town next to me, without sounding racist it is like walking into another country. In every shop there are foreign workers, foreign taxi drivers, and everywhere you go there are foreigners.
The hospital in that town is overcrowded, the midwives don't have the time to properly support you as they are so overstretched.
It is a problem yet the government isn't doing a thing to control it

I'm not sure putting 'without sounding racist' changes how you sound, TBH.

How do you know they're 'foreign' as opposed to 'British but not the same colour as me' or 'British but speak another language'? Do you ask every single one of them?

mrsjay Thu 24-Jan-13 12:08:12

I go into my corner shop and see a pakistani man working I talk to my neighbour and I hear a polish accent I think putting 'without' sounding racist really cuts it tbh,

MrsDeVere Thu 24-Jan-13 12:19:26

alemci well let me set your mind at rest.
I visit immigrant families in their homes..

Many live in one room, share a kitchen, have little furniture and bare floors.

Lots have nice homes but they tend to be the ones who are working and qualified or live with their extended family.

I have never visited the home of a first generation, workless family and found that they live in adequate accommodation, let alone luxury.

The families I work with have disabled children.

MrsDeVere Thu 24-Jan-13 12:22:58

Yeah. Its the polish's fault that MWs are overstretched.

Nothing to do with the running down of the NHS so it can eventually be dismantled altogether.

And for those that think not allowing immigrants access to benefits will stop them coming.

It doesn't. It happens already. Children just go cold and hungry. People live 'underground' so their kids go uneducated and unprotected.

But I do so love to hear the stories of 'when my mum/cousin/neighbour used to work' and the 'well my mate works for the housing and she says' anecdotes.

Its like hearing about a parallel universe.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 12:23:05

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

alemci Thu 24-Jan-13 12:25:13

Maybe things have changed Mrs De Vere but my mum wouldn't lie about it. Perhaps it depends where you live. This was one of the London Boroughs.

However, Mrs De Vere I think it is great what you do. must be very hard for families with disabled children.

'They are definitely foreign, in this town there is also high rates of crime.'

Are you serious?

MrsDeVere Thu 24-Jan-13 12:33:08

I live in a London Borough too.
I am not accusing your mum of lying. That would be very rude smile (that isnt a mean, passive aggressive smilie btw)

But people make assumptions with little to go on.

The MW who came to visit me thought we were workless and eyed up our big tv. tutted that my OH was in bed (once I had corrected her statement that I WAS a single parent).

We both work, the tv was a present and my OH was in bed because he has Multiple Sclerosis.

Chances are she could go home to her friends and family and talk about the family she visits with a lovely council house (its ours, we bought it), flat screen tv, the woman on her 5th baby sat on a chaise lounge (sp) whilst her lazy arse boyfriend slept upstairs (husband)

I have been caught out myself. When you walk into a house you make snap judgments. I have learnt over the years to check myself because, boy - can you be wronger than a wrong thing. Families can lie too. Because they are proud and want to put on a show. You can be in a lovely front room and the rest of the house is empty (which is why SWs are required to check upstairs on CP visits)

There is also the temptation to exaggerate a bit when you have a willing audience.

"Without sounding racist"

Well, you failed there.

charlearose Thu 24-Jan-13 12:35:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cory Thu 24-Jan-13 12:35:34

Britons do go and live if not in Roumania, then at least in France, Spain, Germany, Sweden etc. We have Mumsnetters in that position, even.

Other European countries also deal with the same immigrants, the same refuges, the same discussions over welfare and support. And quite a few European countries spend more on welfare than the UK.

But funnily enough, ime, they each think they're alone and "no other country does this".

OhlimpPricks Thu 24-Jan-13 12:38:40

I think we ought to adopt the same immigration regulations as Australia. To get our Australian visa to allow us to live there permanently (eventually) we had to jump through a lot of hoops.
We both had to pass medicals and have chest X-rays to ensure we would'nt be an immediate drain on the Australian healthcare system.
We had to prove competence in in the English language.
We had to gain points by having qualifications in particular occupations, where there were skill shortages.
We had to pay almost a thousand pounds to apply. This was non refundable even if your application is not successful.
We had to prove we could support ourselves financially, as we would be unable to claim any kind of benefits for two years.

cory Thu 24-Jan-13 12:42:57

charlearose Thu 24-Jan-13 12:35:12
"maybe with regards to immigrants claiming benefits if they could only claim the equivalent amount in the uk to what it is in there own country i.e. whatever the amount of benefit you get in Poland you get in the uk it wouldn't be so attractive and would "

So the UK would be obliged to pay out Swedish level benefits to me then? grin

Should they be obliged to provide subsidised childcare as well?

Bakingnovice Thu 24-Jan-13 12:47:27

Mrs dv is right. Many many of these families are very poor. They live in substandard housing with poor diets and very little money. It's the educated workers who tend to buy their own house, get good jobs and live better lives. The families I work with have very little, and a lot of the poorer children are either malnourished or badly nourished through eating cheap Takeaways. The media uses mass immigration to scare no get without a doubt. But those that live in mixed communities have our own experiences to share.

mumzy Thu 24-Jan-13 13:07:12

I think it is a serious problem and we should be concerned. I'm not against immigration but we need to ensure there is enough suitable housing, schools and public services for everyone before admitting more people into the country. The numbers were seriously underestimated last time and 10 times more people came than was anticipated. I live in an area where lots of the recent immigrants settled and the strain on all the services has been immense.(ie. not enough reception school places this year, difficulty getting drs appointment, terrible antenatal services due to massive numbers of pregnant women, long waiting lists and lack of good social housing, 3 bed houses housing 8-10 adults) As a result there is a lot of tension from the locals towards all immigrants and it has become a very segregated population. A free school opened near me recently and 80% of the pupils there are the children of recent immigrants. A further 3 free schools have been proposed to meet the future demand for places.

FlipFlopFloss Thu 24-Jan-13 14:02:29

I am glad to hear there are other countries paying more welfare than the UK.

As someone with no job (in a few weeks) and an existing medical condition I would like the heads up as to where the best place/country for me to go where I can get a house, benefits and free medical care? Would be good for me to compare there and here before I make my decision (and research further) as to where I should reside

I have about 6 weeks left in my job - maybe enough time to save for my airfare or ferry. I speak a little French, German and Spanish but will consider anywhere as there is FA to keep me here anymore.

I am seriously interested as i wont be entitled to very much here for several weeks according to the CAB.

OneMoreChap Thu 24-Jan-13 15:01:48

dreamingofsun Thu 24-Jan-13 11:44:30

onemorechap - i don't understand how you think housing is a 'preceived' problem. 2 bed flats start at 150k where we live. How on earth can someone on an average salary afford to buy that?

And that's connected to immigration how, exactly?
The snide answer used to be "live somewhere else, then" but average house prices everywhere are ridiculous.

I'm on what I'd consider a good screw, and I'd struggle to buy a house on the old mortgage rules of 3 x first income = 2nd income.

Largely, Thatcher's "big idea" of flogging council houses and then preventing councils building more landed us in the kack.

dreamingofsun Thu 24-Jan-13 15:52:22

onemorechap - thatcher was years ago, people can't keep harping back to her and blaming her for all the problems.

lack of new supply and increased house demand = high prices. so yes, the more people moving here = higher demand = higher prices. Or we increase supply and concrete over the south of england.

alemci Thu 24-Jan-13 16:24:32

It is connected to immigration one more chap because there may have been more social housing available for people already here and not so much demand for housing whether bought or rented. Less housing to go round with more people arriving and needing to be housed.

Also the people who bought their council houses through MT's scheme did very nicely and I worked with some of them in the early '90's who were boasting about it. Meanwhile I had to buy my house at market price

the people arriving to the UK have families and their need is put first. Councils admitted this in the end even though they had been denying it for years. As I said earlier, if you go to a local council estate locally there are lots of immigrants there. They need to live somewhere

Everytime private houses are built some of it has to be allocated to social housing.

Mrs De Vere I take on board your points and it is easy to make snap judgements.

I just think we are full up and should sort out who is already here before allowing anyone else to come unless they have some money and have something to offer us and adopt the Australian system

OneMoreChap Thu 24-Jan-13 17:07:28

Good god.

Immigration is responsible for house price inflation now?
Smaller families, divorce, both partners working, having to move for a job.

We're full up... and shouldn't have any more unless quite often has the unvoiced unless they're white and Christian

Yes, it's scare mongering.

alemci
the people arriving to the UK have families and their need is put first. Councils admitted this in the end even though they had been denying it for years.

OK, I'll bite. Give me a cite for that please.

alemci Thu 24-Jan-13 18:10:06

I'm not great at linking and I am cooking dinner but Margaret Hodge discussed this issue in 2007 to do with Barking and Dagenham.

I am not saying that immigrants push house prices directly up but maybe there is more demand for people buying a house privately as they cannot get housed by the council anymore and they are having to do this buy taking on a huge mortgage. Of course there are other reasons as you stated as well

Footface Thu 24-Jan-13 18:17:06

There is not enough housing for the people already here. There is just not enough of everything. Space, jobs, schools, hospital. It has to stop before we burst

whois Thu 24-Jan-13 18:18:38

The catering staff at my place of work in Lomdon are 90% polish. The cleaning staff are 100% black Africans.

Not sure why this should be, pay must be minimum wage at least and would have thought there were plenty of English people who would want to work in the canteen who haven't currently got jobs.

No real point to this post. I just find it odd that nearly all the canteen staff are polish, almost like the catering company specifically targets them.

LaVitaBellissima Thu 24-Jan-13 18:36:47

"We prioritise the needs of an individual migrant family over the entitlement others feel they have. So a recently arrived family with four or five children living in a damp and overcrowded, privately rented flat with the children suffering from asthma will usually get priority over a family with less housing need who have lived in the area for three generations and are stuck at home with the grandparents."

That is the Margaret Hodge quote that Alemci was referring to from this Guardian article

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now