Mass Immigration, scare mongering??

(317 Posts)
Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:09:24

Am I being unreasonable to think it is a problem or am I just falling prey to media propaganda? The whole EU debate seems to have highlighted it but I would like to understand it better.

lainiekazan Thu 24-Jan-13 10:14:57

I actually think the Bulgarian/Romanian issue is a serious one. I just can't see how this country can possibly absorb the numbers who are anticipated to come here. Housing, schools... or large numbers of single men. In Germany there has been a huge growth in prostitution and sex trafficking as a direct result of many "womenless" men seeking work there.

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:26:04

Is it something people aren't bothered by, or are but don't want to admit, or are just unsure?

Where I live mass immigration has had little to no effect, there are some Polish immigrants who have been absorbed into the community but that's about it.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 10:30:22

I think it's very worrying that they can 'lose' immigrants.
The nhs is already fit to busting, so much so some hospitals are turning away labouring mothers.
Our hospitals are full, jobs are hard to find, schools are full and the government says it's due to the population increasing hmm

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 10:31:35

We need a system similar to Australia

Crinkle77 Thu 24-Jan-13 10:34:34

Some immigration is necessary, always has been and always will be. They often fill the gaps in employment and I would say in this country they often do the jobs that no one else wants to do. I live in an agricultural area and there are a lot of Polish who come to work on the farms. There are also a lot of immigrants who work in the hotel industry and as carers for the elderly.

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:35:34

The Australian system is very good, it has a really broad range of occupations on the skilled occupation list, not just the high earning brackets. I think it also diffuses immigration tension as the Australians have faith in the system and that anyone coming into the country to live is able to support themselves and make a positive contribution to society.

jojane Thu 24-Jan-13 10:39:01

I really think that benefits need to be stopped for non uk citizens who have not paid taxes and NI for a certain amount of time, no council housing etc, people applying for visas should have to prove that they have a certain amount of cash AND a job to go to before they are allowed to settle here, we couldn't get government help wen we lived in France until we had even paying ino the system for 6 months. People who can't support themselves would have to go back to their home country, sounds harsh but we as a country need to stop being seen as a soft touch and easy to get benefits. People get child benefit for kids that aren't even in the country! I'm not racist and fully embrace diversity as long as they can support themselves. I have loved and worked in other countries but as son as the job ran out I came back to my own country.

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:42:25

My ex husband was from a non EU country and on his visa had 'no recourse to public funds' for 5 years, which meant he was not allowed to claim any benefits, although he got free healthcare. He was also provided with free English language classes at our local college, this was about 10 years ago though.

If you are from an EU country are you immediately entitled to benefits other than schools/healthcare?

Bakingnovice Thu 24-Jan-13 10:42:27

I too think the Bulgarian/Romanian issue is worrying. In our small town we are inundated with Europeans most of whom are unable to find jobs or work. I volunteer in a charity and the number of people who come straight to us from the airport for assistance in completing benefit forms is growing by the day. In fact we are on the verge of closing up as we no
Longer have time to deal with the community we set up to help as there is no time and there are no spare resources. Helping someone who has just arrived in the uk with children and older family members in tow, nowhere to live and no money and speaks no English can take a whole day. Just putting them through to the right agency can take hours. We are a small voluntary group set up to assist a local youth group. Instead we are struggling with assisting immigrants. God knows how other services are coping. My heart breaks for the children. They always look bewildered, anxious, displaced and hungry.

mrsjay Thu 24-Jan-13 10:44:25

Imigrants have always came to Britain Immigrants have always been spoken about like this the scottish people round me are a few genrations of polish Indian some Italians it has always been the same, I am more concerned about people being trafficked into the Uk they are offered a dream to get out of poverty in their own country,

ballinacup Thu 24-Jan-13 10:46:29

Jojane, immigrants do have to prove all of those things before getting a visa.

EU immigrants don't, because they don't need visas due to the EU free movement of people policy.

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:47:36

I think the difference here is mass immigration, immigration can be a good thing and have a positive effect on a country but I think mass immigration can cause a lot of problems, from what I understand.

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:49:51

Where does the government stand on this? I assumed that the tories would want to limit mass immigration, or does the economic benefit of being in the EU outweigh the economic strain of mass immigration?

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:51:12

Also, how do other comparatively affluent EU countries deal with mass immigration and the strain it puts on their health services/benefit systems?

alemci Thu 24-Jan-13 10:52:29

I don't think it is scaremongering. There is a housing shortage and there are huge waiting lists for social housing. Do we want everywhere concreted on and no green fields and flooding. If more people come where will they live? Why should they be prioritised when the people already here are on the council waiting list?

Alot of our young people are unemployed. If more people arrive it makes the job market even more competitive and drives down wages.

The situation in schools and hospitals and not enough midwives.

I live in Greater London and it feels overcrowded now. Why do we need anymore people here?

The lady from Boston on Question time last week having Polish people sleeping rough on her land and being homeless. People sleeping in sheds and being exploited for high rents. Problems with sewage and hygene.

also if we go to another European country, would we be entitled to any council housing or free translators?

I keep hearing about the benefit to the economy etc but what is it doing for the ordinary working classes who can't afford a cleaner etc.

I don't agree with people being given child benefit for kids that don't even live here when our own taxpayers have had theirs cut.

N.B. My paternal grandparents were immigrants.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 10:57:39

I agree alemci, we just Don't have the space and Britons should be given priority.
No other country allows others before their own.
I'm all for foreigners coming here, if they have skills, are wealthy, in true danger or are of use in the public sector but we seem to be letting every Tom duck or harry in and letting them stay

I think depends on where you live. I live about equal distance to two hospital. One is in a very posh chocolate box town. There's no one who is not white and british when I went to the A&E there last weekend. On the other side, there's this bigger more 'common' city. I've been to its A&E a few times and there are always eastern europeans. (And many people in track suits etc). I'm sure people who live in that chocolate box town will think there isn't any problem mass immigration.

Flickstix Thu 24-Jan-13 10:59:29

I live in a chocolate box town and haven't seen much immigration, but when I go to our nearest city it's another story.

elizaregina Thu 24-Jan-13 10:59:51

There are several problems with the immigration we have now and as my polish sister in law says ( she has been here for 25 years, has never claimed benefits and is a high tax payer now),

when you have a large amount of people coming in - you are going to have a high amount therefore of good, hard working people who will benefit the uk, but the rest as SHE says are people " quite frankly poland is happy to see the back of".

ie, 100 people coming in, 80% are great, 20% bad, becomes far more problematic when you are dealing in very high numbers.

Thats one problem, and when I say problematic people I mean what I have personally been exposed to where I live - in dense housing. There about 5 houses up and down my road with lodgers living in them; of moslty EU origin, a few Polish but the main problems seem to be consitently coming from the Lithuanian and Romanian people, usually young men.....

stabbings - anti social behaviour leading to severe reduction in the quailty of daily life for the other residents etc on an almost daily basis; down to smaller things like never parking properly, blocking the pavement - drug dealing and litter. The police are in almost weekly attendance to these houses - and an ambulance has been seen outside a fair few times as well as council involvement.

The other problem is - resources. We have been in one of the most hardest hit areas and the hospitals have put lives at risk, due to high numbers of people and we are not prepared for it and we have little money to cope and expand to deal with it.

Our hospital has been closing its doors now for a long time on a regular basis - I do know of women turned away in labour, and I am terrified at the prospect of any of my family needing the local hospital with the sheer amount of horror stories coming out of it.

Schools, doctors - is widely known here to be under immense pressure.
One school - primary is 79 - 90% non english speaking, being predominanlty Eastern European.

The school that my DD is at - has however a broader European mix - from EE but also Spanish , French, German , Amercain. I would say 60 - 70% English origin and the rest a mix, and I LOVE that.
As my polish DSIl says - she doesnt blame anyone for coming here or anywhere else to make a better life ( thats what she did) - BUT she thinks our goverment is utterly ridulous in making such a range of pull factors to come here....they are disproportionate to the benefits you can claim in Poland. Its not a level playing field.

The bottom line is - do we really want other countries undesirables to come here as well as having to deal with our own.

And can we " afford" the volume of people we have coming here, can we cope with them? And can we cope - physically and financially with any more?

All the polish I know have been here for a long time, one is second generation and she and her family dont understand whats going on, another has just finished studying she has been here for about 6 years now, and she is the same, another friend was here maybe 12 years and then my DSIL> all of them say the same thing.

manicbmc Thu 24-Jan-13 11:01:18

We have always had large amounts of immigrants coming to this country.

These days though, we are just as able to go to theirs (or any other EU country).

I am a citizen of the world.

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 24-Jan-13 11:03:13

There is a problem in the town next to me, without sounding racist it is like walking into another country. In every shop there are foreign workers, foreign taxi drivers, and everywhere you go there are foreigners.
The hospital in that town is overcrowded, the midwives don't have the time to properly support you as they are so overstretched.
It is a problem yet the government isn't doing a thing to control it

Sallyingforth Thu 24-Jan-13 11:07:54

It does worry me greatly. We have always had immigration and it's been good for the country in many ways. We would be much poorer without it.
But I cannot see how we can cope with the large numbers predicted to come here. There is no work for them and no housing.

jojane Thu 24-Jan-13 11:08:04

I think unless you are British you should not get any government help bar emergency medical help as per the e111 or what ever the current system is, you should get billed for all other medical dental schooling etc you use, if you work and pay taxes then yes you can access public services for free. I don't understand how polish etc can come over here and get housed and benefits when British people can't get this without being on waiting lists for years etc as have to pay private rent etc. the school are overcrowded, nhs is going to combust soon, people are beig taxes so much they can't spend any money so the economy is going to go down the pan, Eastern European s are coming over and working but then sending half the money back home so the economy is being drained of its cash flow

OneMoreChap Thu 24-Jan-13 11:09:56

There is no immigration problem.
There is a perceived benefit system/housing system problem, where people are alleged to arrive here and get our housing, take our benefits...

I've spoken to many young people who hate them effing Poles... but wouldn't dream of working early shift in a cafe/ or in a field...

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