to sypport dd in pushing another child?

(61 Posts)
KhallDrogo Tue 22-Jan-13 18:46:18

In context...8 yo dd1 had a problem with an adult being over familiar. School was involved with warning him off, unwanted hugs from stranger. Motives a bit blurry, but think just inappropriate rather than anything sinister

So, we have had a number of talks about her being able to say 'no' to anyone if they are doing something she doesn't like, and I have made it clear she can shout and push.

Now...boy at school was fooling around, teasing and kissing her. She asked him to stop, he didn't. She pushed him and he fell over. She has been told off by teacher. She tried to speak to her own teacher about what happened, but she was told 'this isn't the time'

She is upset, but I have reinforced that she did the right thing. AIBU? AND WIBU to speak to the teacher and say that I will continue to support this?

I understand teachers are busy in the play ground and can't get involved in every little to-do; but she asked him to stop herself, teacher too busy/uninterested...

WorraLiberty Tue 22-Jan-13 18:51:27

Until you've found out exactly what happened, I wouldn't endorse her behaviour.

So of course you should speak to the teacher but leave telling them that you'll 'continue to support this', until you know what went on.

I remember your original thread and I'm glad that's sorted out but please be aware that kids don't always make the best judgement calls...and she can't just go about pushing people over if she feels slighted by them.

They may well have been playing kiss chase.

sannaville Tue 22-Jan-13 18:52:45

Yanbu. Boy should've stopped kissing her when told no. I would've supported my dd of same age. I'd speak to school about it.

cansu Tue 22-Jan-13 19:10:35

I don't think you should tell her it's always ok. Yes there will be times when it is ok to push but there are other ways to handle playground problems and walking away and to stand by the teacher would have worked just as well here. The teacher may not have had time to deal with it at the moment your dd wished to discuss why she had been told off. If everyone told their dc it was ok to push someone if they annoyed them then there would be plenty of aggressive behaviour in our playgrounds. So yes I think YABU and wrong to mix up ordinary playground issues with a potentially more serious issue. If you are concerned that your dd is being harassed by a boy at school then call and make them aware of it.

Bakingtins Tue 22-Jan-13 19:12:08

I'd do the same, and I'd want to speak to the teacher concerned about how the boy involved was disciplined. I think pushing someone away who is giving you unwanted attention, that if an adult did it would be considered a form of sexual assault, is completely reasonable. Particularly since she's recently had to deal with unwanted adult attention - perhaps the teacher involved wasn't aware of that bit, but they should be reinforcing that she is allowed to enforce her boundaries.

InNeedOfBrandy Tue 22-Jan-13 19:16:09

I remember your other thread, glad that's all been resolved hope your still friends with the mum.

You did the right thing IMO backing her up on this.

yohohoho Tue 22-Jan-13 19:17:09

She can't enforce her boundaries by pushing people when she thinks is appropriate, tbh. Although I understand why she did.

Speak to the teacher and make sure you have the whole story and work out a plan with your dd and her teacher about how she should handle this situation, without pushing other children. I am sure you and her would feel awful is she injured a child.

KhallDrogo Tue 22-Jan-13 19:18:32

Thanks for your replies

You've got a good memory worra smile

cansu I do see what you are saying....I'm just not sure she should be doubting her right to defend her boundaries. I don't think the onus should be on her to differentiate on when its ok and when its not. She didn't thump the boy, she could have.

It's not ok to push someone for being annoying...but touching and kissing??

My priority is on teaching my dd to keep herself safe. I think the focus should be on the boys mother to teach him to lay off when told to?

manicbmc Tue 22-Jan-13 20:17:49

I think the school should be concentrating on making sure that boy knows that if a girl (or anyone else) says no then he stops making his advances.

If he had stopped when asked he wouldn't have been pushed.

Crawling Tue 22-Jan-13 20:26:59

I understand and think given the circumstances id do the same but have a chat to the teacher and with dd so that she knows when its acceptable and what is not.

CloudsAndTrees Tue 22-Jan-13 20:28:22

I think you need to make sure you know exactly what the boy was doing. Is there a chance your dd exaggerated what he was doing because she knew that you would defend her and say it was ok for her to push?

I don't think you should be defending her. Pushing was not the first things she should have done, and if she pushed enough that she was told off for it, it was probably quite a shove. She could have told him no again first, she could have walked away, she could have shouted at him, she could have shouted for a teacher or a friend. In a playground situation, those things would have been better than a shove.

But most importantly, you need to trust the school to deal with it as they will have a better idea of what happened than you do, no matter how much you believe your dd.

cansu Tue 22-Jan-13 20:28:55

If touching and kissing is involved then you should speak to the school as the child concerned needs to be spoken to firmly by staff so they can explain why it is not acceptable. In this situation I would tell my dd to turn around walk straight to the teacher and report it.

poppy283 Tue 22-Jan-13 20:34:42

Yanbu, if the boy wouldn't leave her aloneand she couldn't walk awaythen pushing him away is completely acceptable imo.

I'd tell Dd the same when she's older, and ds for that matter.

mrsjay Tue 22-Jan-13 20:35:13

It isnt always Ok to push somebody really I dont think you should encourage it as she may think she can push anybody who is annoying her I would speak to the teacher about it, incidently is this the same girl who a dad was hugging her at breakfast club ?

KhallDrogo Tue 22-Jan-13 21:36:35

Yes mrsjay that is dd. Wow, you all have really good memories, I have name changed since then!

cloudsandtrees yes, I hope it was 'quite a shove'. If she's going to do it, it needs to be effective. It wasnt her first line of defence, she asked the boy to stop. I agree, that there are other intermediary steps she could have taken. But, in preperation for life, I am happy for her to by-pass them in these circumstances

She is a tall-tale teller. It's possible her version of events is not accurate. But, she isn't an aggressive or violent child, I've not known her hit/shove etc before. And given recent events, she may be hyper-sensitive. But equally, those concerns are pretty valid anyway, hyper sensitive or not.

redbobblehat Tue 22-Jan-13 21:40:54

yanbu.

well done on teaching her to stand for herself

good job op

Viviennemary Tue 22-Jan-13 21:43:47

I think she did do the right thing. Of course she should push somebody like that away and push hard. I think you should go into the school and speak to the teacher though in case of any further incidents.

StuntGirl Tue 22-Jan-13 21:48:27

It doesn't matter whether it was a game or not. No means no.

I would probably discuss other available options with her, such as walking away, getting a teacher, etc, just so she doesn't feel like her options are "put up with unwanted behaviour or get violent". It's important you're teaching her to recognise her own boundaries and defend her right to protect those boundaries.

Have you found out the exact circumstances and context? Was it a game?

KhallDrogo Tue 22-Jan-13 21:56:04

She said the boy was playing, laughing and not being nasty. He was 'chatting her up', telling her she was beautiful/has nice hair etc etc. But she didn't want to play and told him so and moved away repeatedly. She doesn't like being kissed at all, not even by me. So, I can imagine that was her final straw

YANBU he wouldn't stop touching/kissing she shoved him.
I taught my boys similar, don't let anyone push you around, no one is aloud to touch you if you have said no, and never throw the first punch.
They never got in trouble for standing up for themselves, Ds 2 was the only one who ever threw a punch and the only after he was sucker punched first, other kid went down like a sack of potatoes and was given a suspension, turns out Ds wasn't the first to be attacked.
Dd is 8 I have told her the same but not sure it actually sunk in.

MammyKaz Tue 22-Jan-13 22:10:02

You totally did the right thing, as did your DD. We need to teach our children respect for each other AND themselves. IMO it is more important that children are taught to recognize & respect boundaries & to back off if attention is unwanted, otherwise.....
Well done for instilling self respect In your DD.
The school should be informed & indeed all the facts assessed & any follow up taken as necessary but I absolutely wouldn't make your DD feel regret for standing up for herself. I would have an issue that a teacher wasn't available to a child in need - shouldn't they be able to identify when a child asks for help that it's deserving of attention?

worridmum Tue 22-Jan-13 22:57:45

YANBU in my opinion I did the same thing when a 10 year girl did that to my DS who had only just turned 8. As I belive everyone has the right to defend there boudries.

What also annoyed me massivily was the teacher when i mentioned i was concrened with what happened had the cheek to suggest i should teach my son that he should never ever hit / push / get phyiscal with a girl full stop my jaw just dropped am all for the femmist cause and all but I wouldnt want anyone to feel like the couldnt defend themselves just because they are male and the attacker is female.

This is from a past event where my DB was left in hospital because a gang of drunkern girls attacked him on a night out and he wouldnt defend himself because they were females he was left with alot of broken bones and couldnt work for nearly a year and only 3 of the 5 attackers went to prison because the other 2 had children. It is sooo agrivating had his attackers all been male they all would of been sent to prison but just because they are female shouldnt excuse them from the conquences of their actions and i worry for their children.

(sorry for bad spelling am dyslixica and on a phone without a spell checker. first post from a long time lurker I thought i should post as something similear happened to my child)

MidniteScribbler Tue 22-Jan-13 23:11:15

She should not be supported in using physical violence. She should be encouraged to walk away and find a teacher or trusted adult and ask them for help. You cannot condone physical violence. If the push doesn't work, does she get to then punch? Stab? Push him in front of a car? No, she needs to learn to deal with the situation appropriately by walking away and seeing a teacher.

I would however be taking it up with the school and expecting that the boy be spoken to about his behaviour and warned that it is not appropriate and for staff to keep a closer eye on the students to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Greensleeves Tue 22-Jan-13 23:17:57

I think the school need to be doing some work on personal boundaries and appropriate behaviour, with all of the children. It really isn't OK for her to be touched or kissed by anyone if she doesn't want it.

Having said that, I would have told her that if another child is bothering her, she needs to use words first - firmly and clearly "Stop it, I don't like it" or similar. And she needs to know that the teachers and HT will back her up if she needs support to stop another child from behaving inappropriately with her.

I see your point of view completely but the school can't just condone children pushing one another over. She needs other strategies to use first

(and then if the boy doesn't leave her alone and the staff don't make him, she can push him over!)

Lovecat Tue 22-Jan-13 23:18:51

YANBU. The boy should be pulled up about his behaviour and I would also be questioning the school about the teacher's response. What kind of a lesson is it for her when her 'no' is not taken seriously and she is not allowed to give her side of events to the teacher who didn't want to know?

Whilst I don't agree with physical violence, if someone will not leave you alone despite having been asked to, and the teacher doesn't want to know, I think a push to get him out of her face was not excessive and I really don't see it leading to her going on a killing spree (as MidniteScribble seems to assume it will...).

OP, your DD has the right to not be touched or bothered and she should not be afraid to stand up for herself. Good for her (and you).

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