Joint webchat with Conservative and Labour housing minister and shadow housing minister, MONDAY 2 MARCH 1pm x

16 kids and counting...

(379 Posts)
thatisall Fri 11-Jan-13 21:47:38

I genuinely don't know what I think, have no strong opinions about their lifestyle, life choices etc etc.....my first thoughts were that it was just too many but they seem very nice and happy lol

Am I being unreasonable to want to chat about the show on here anyway?

No I'm not a jour no trying to get a MN quote before someone suggests it....

....just sat at home alone thinking 16....? 16!? :-O

OwlLady Mon 14-Jan-13 18:54:37

I don't think you can prove a fact based on something that hasn't actually happened and even it has it would be based on a statistical 'fact' rather than on actual fact

diaimchlo Mon 14-Jan-13 19:05:57

For those of you that are commenting that this family is a drain on government resources please bear in mind that they are not a large family popping little ones out for the sake of getting more benefits, if this was the case I would fully empathise with your views.

So please stop being so judgemental, as has been said before the children appear to be in a good stable home with parents that have wanted each and every one of them and I think that they will be able to contribute to society in a good positive way.

wordfactory Mon 14-Jan-13 19:11:10

owl I agree.

I'm simply pointing out the liklihood of what will happen in answer to those implying the family are doing the world a favour by producing so many potential tax payers.

To be honest, I really can't see how any child with so little parental attention can reach their full potential. Kids need time, no?

chocoluvva Mon 14-Jan-13 19:56:35

It's awful to think that you're not contributing if you don't work - there are different ways of contributing.

The advent of mothers working was fairly recent. I bet there's many an unhappy, neglected child whose parents both have well-paid jobs.

wordfactory Mon 14-Jan-13 20:00:19

There are many ways to contribute - it was not I that brought up the issue of tax! I am simply answering that point. And I cannot see that saying other DC are neglected as being any defence. Are we in a race to the bottom?

chocoluvva Mon 14-Jan-13 20:08:24

Apologies wordfactory, that was directed at flatpack.

My point was that in "fiscal" terms the high-earning parents are contributing to society, but in SOME instances which will ususally go unmeasured and un-recorded they may also cause problems or offer nothing else to society (eg, if they're anti-social)

To put it more positively, a non-working parent who is a good role model, enriches the lives of other people by their behaviour and personality and brings up their children to be responsible is surely making a valuable contribution to society.

flatpackhamster Wed 16-Jan-13 08:48:07

chocoluvva

My point was that in "fiscal" terms the high-earning parents are contributing to society, but in SOME instances which will ususally go unmeasured and un-recorded they may also cause problems or offer nothing else to society (eg, if they're anti-social)

To put it more positively, a non-working parent who is a good role model, enriches the lives of other people by their behaviour and personality and brings up their children to be responsible is surely making a valuable contribution to society.

And how exactly do we quantify that? Are there values of loveliness and superness that we can use?

Perhaps we should have a "Mary Poppins Scale" where someone's loveliness can be measured?

soverylucky Wed 16-Jan-13 09:07:29

My kids come home from school at 4pm. They go to bed at 7.30. They are primary school age. I suspect that this is very similar to many on mn. In the time that they get in from school I have to do their reading books with them, help with any homework that needs doing, cook the tea, bath them and put them to bed. I also have to take them to after school activities such as brownies, swimming etc. I do not see how I could do this with 8,9 10 children etc. Not well anyway. I would have to rely on the older children helping the younger ones and there is just no way you can give that many children the same time that you can give 2. I also have housework to do as these parents must because they are at work in the day.

They DO cost the taxpayer money but as I said earlier it is the time issue that bothers me. I lived in a household that was very big - much bigger than what other posters are talking about on here. I was loved, wanted, my parents worked but as we were all close in age like the family in this programme it was impossible for my parents to give anything like the time to each of us that I give my two children. My friends thought it was brilliant when they came to stay - like the Waltons and we were something of a local talking point - "the family with all the kids" but living in it was not great really. I know that some people have a different experince to me when they come from a large family but 16 is just selfish in the extreme. I would not care if they were billionaires - it is all about time.

chocoluvva Wed 16-Jan-13 09:34:12

"How exactly do we quantify that?"

Why waste money on measuring?

Unmeasurable does not equal having no worth.

Mosman Wed 16-Jan-13 09:58:54

You can buy time, I saved so I could spend time off work with each baby. I worked from home in the evenings to spend faux with the toddlers and I get up at 5am to do chores so my weekends are free when I work full time.

Softlysoftly Wed 16-Jan-13 11:44:25

Was I watching a different programme confused.

Yes they generally seemed well cared for but we are making them sound like saints.

Consider the responses you would give to the following AIBU

I can't get my 4 little ones to sleep so I've stuck them all in an attic room and removed the handle to let them scream/beat each order/ destroy things in peace. That's Ok Yes?

My DD (3/4yrs) spends all day with her dummy or a bottle of juice in her mouth but I'm too busy to sort it out. AIBU?

I have to walk 4 DCs at once, I do have reins but forget to hold them and they have run along the roads few times, no ones perfect right?

Granted they did a far better job than I could but there is no way that there weren't cracks showing caused by the strain of too many kids for the time they have to give.

Im 17 and got my 13 year old gf pregnant WIU

Softlysoftly Wed 16-Jan-13 11:46:36

Last two paragraphs are oddly out of order!

flatpackhamster Wed 16-Jan-13 21:44:28

chocoluvva

Why waste money on measuring?

Unmeasurable does not equal having no worth.

I would have liked to continue this conversation. However, my previous, detailed post has been deleted. The reason for its deletion was that it offended the pompous morality of a self-appointed left-wing clique who consider themselves the arbiters of all that is decent. This might be tolerable if they weren't both pig-ignorant and quite, quite thick.

Obviously I recognise that their primary motive is to stifle all dissent but I really cannot be bothered to fight them today.

I advise you to read this quickly, because no doubt it will be deleted in jig time by The Thought Police. It's OK to accuse people of ThoughtCrime here, but not OK to tell people they're imbeciles.

AndrewJ Tue 05-Mar-13 23:56:25

16 Kids and Counting:

On watching this program, I was appalled at this pair of families. Their morals, standards, values and respect to their community as a whole are sorely lacking. Not to mention the utter disrespect for the over-crowded planet which we are living in.
It is absolutely and perfectly clear that having children is simply a game to these families - maybe not each partner involved, but definitely one of the two. It is so wrong, so deeply WRONG to bring more children into this world than is necessary for one to fullfil their own natural instinct of having a child.
These people are playing a game, and we are paying the price of it many-fold.
Firstly, these selfish jokers are reducing the NHS care available to other families over several lifetimes - by this I mean LIFETIME CARE by the NHS. This includes taking away money which could be otherwise used for IVF, for couples who can't pop a kid out on a Sunday afternoon. Secondly, they are reducing places in schools for other smaller families. These people are equating to over five average families in one. Thirdly, they are sucking away several families-worth of CHB and some are taking up huge amounts of government provided housing. On a final point, it's highly unlikely that they will have the strength, money, or ability to help their children into further education, or leave any inheritance of worth, and setting a bad example of to their children of a something-for-nothing lifestyle.

What stupid, deluded people they are. I wish them them the worst. I leave you with a quote from one of the families:

(The Father reacts to one of his children being bullied for neither of his parents working):

"They are very resilient because I've brainwashed them (his children) into believing that the other kids are jealous of our family."

Brainwashed. I don't need to say any more...

I think you missed where the family with 16 children have their own business. hmm

AndrewJ Fri 08-Mar-13 00:38:02

I did. He's a baker right? Well he'll have step-up his baking hours, expand his business radically and employ more people, or turn into Jesus to feed all the 5000 people he and his wife want to put on this planet.

AndrewJ Fri 08-Mar-13 00:38:47

I did. He's a baker right? Well he'll have step-up his baking hours, expand his business radically and employ more people, or turn into Jesus to feed all the 5000 people he and his wife want to put on this planet.

He seems to be providing enough for them just now.

juule Wed 13-Mar-13 12:43:50

"It is so wrong, so deeply WRONG to bring more children into this world than is necessary for one to fullfil their own natural instinct of having a child. "

How many children would you consider to be sufficient to fulfil natural instincts for having a child?
While 1 might be enough for some parents, it would appear not to be for others.

BlackMaryJanes Thu 14-Mar-13 10:48:37

If these mothers love tiny babies so much, why don't they breastfeed? Oh yeah, that would get in the way of their breeding prerogative.

There. I said it.

lougle Thu 14-Mar-13 11:31:15

Flatpackhamster you are entirely wrong that:

" Access to specialist schooling is a privilege and it's good for the children that get that schooling. But never forget that it remains a privilege."

The SEN Code of Practice says:

"Parents may express a preference for the maintained school ( but not a PRU or hospital special school) they wish their child to attend, or make representations for a placement in any other school. LEAs must comply with a parental preference unless the school is unsuitable to the child’s age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs, or the placement would be incompatible with the efficient education of the other children with whom the child would be educated, or with the efficient use of resources. LEAs must consider parental
representations and arrange any meeting(s) with LEA advisers or officers the
parents seek, before issuing the final statement.
See Schedule 27, Education Act 1996

AndrewJ Tue 19-Mar-13 21:39:14

One - that should fulfil the natural instincts of the parents to have a child, as they have had a child, no?. I think any couple who go beyond 2 are just selfish and a quite ignorant of the pressure they are putting on the planet. Wake up and smell the coffee (that will run out soon). If you think I'm being dramatic, you will think back to this message in about 10 years time and reconsider it, believe me.

CarnivorousPanda Tue 19-Mar-13 22:13:18

AndrewJ Completely agree with you.

I can't understand why programmes like this are shown. Publicising irresponsible, selfish behaviour.

juule Tue 19-Mar-13 22:22:37

And for those who the natural instinct for a child doesn't go away once they've had one child, what would you recommend for them Andrewj?

WafflyVersatile Tue 19-Mar-13 22:41:17

Oh there are so few families of this size in the UK and I doubt anyone is going to suddenly get the idea to have 15 kids cos some wifey on the telly did.

Their effect on overpopulation, which isn't the problem people make it out to be anyway, is imperceptible.

And it's hardly as if the reason everyone who doesn't have 15 kids doesn't is because they are curbing their selfish desire and so are better people. Most people would not want anything like that many.

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