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I think whoever got in this time would be extremely unpopular.

Every government does things we like and things we don't.

One of the good things in this country is at least we have the right to vote without being worried we are going to be shot/the voting fixed.

I don't have a clue who my friends and family vote for because they do so for their own reasons and it wouldn't make me think any differently if they voted for conservative/labour whoever.

I think you made a very sweeping generalisation and that is what I would judge you on, not who you choose to vote for!

How can dreamingofsun claim that it is labour that causes the country to become bankrupt? They left the economy in much better shape than it is now, and the double dip has happened under Tory control of the economy. The truth is that Osborne is staggeringly incompetent.

I actually think there's not a party existing in our political arena these days that amounts to much

As an old gimmer I've lived through two lots of labour governments virtually bankrupting the country. Not learning from previous lessons and living beyond your means - that's dim!

Thanks xanderxine.

"Lilithmoon Wed 09-Jan-13 21:32:57

I honestly think that people who vote Tory vote to protect themselves and are not at all interested in life beyond the end of their proverbial front path.
I also think that unless they are super, super rich they are like turkeys voting for Christmas because not a single Tory MP gives a flying fuck about them."

Never has the nail been hit so squarely on the head!!

WTF!

batsintheroof I really hope that was an ironic comment or I think you are winner of today's MN award for silly posts.

I agree that tribalism can be bad. When you refuse to listen to any reason becasue of another person's politics etc. I still dislike Tories and don't have any as immediate friends or family. I'd argue too much with them. You don't find many Tories in a scientific environment, where I work, thank goodness.

YANBU

Is everyone who votes Conservative "nasty" or "uncaring"? I have a (very annoying) Facebook friend who seems to think so. He is constantly re-posting stuff from that blog Nobody Likes A Tory, and putting up links to every policy decision with comments like "Fucking bastard Tories." The other day he was suggesting we should "kick this lot out now and be done with it, not wait for the election" - which sounds dangerously like a lack of respect for democracy to me.

That's part of the problem with democracy - every few years it means putting up with a lot in government you don't like, or at least like less than the other lot. Surely people have to suck it up. The boot will be on the other foot in a few years (a couple, even) and they can have a good crow then.

There could be lots of reasons for that. Tribalism being one of them. And absolutely nothing to do with how rich or poor someone is.

The stats suggest that in most poor areas Labour or Liberals get elected. In rich areas it is almost always Tories who become MPs

there are some exceptions

What a ridiculous post. For the record I have never voted Tory, but my DH does. He is many things to me, but I can assure you that he is regarded as is being "Bright" by others.

Getting the economy back on track is essential, and actually I think the coalition is doing a reasonable job. Was it Liam Byrne (ex Labour minister) who left the note saying the money had run out? I really don't want Labour back in after the shambles they left.

Yawn OP.

I didn't vote Tory and loathe them. However I think levels of intelligence has nothing to do with how people vote.

I think political tribalism is dangerous, you are attracted to people with the same ideals generally but we need to mix with people who are not the same as us as much as possible. This helps levels of understanding.

I was a trade union activist for many years and some of the most narrow minded people I have ever met were on the extreme left.

The irony is, that sometimes a good leader SHOULD do things that are unpleasant or unpopular. Not because its selfish, but for quite the opposite reason.

Populist and short term politics are partly the reason we are in this mess.

Certainly issues over pensions have been going on for decades and have pandered to vote winning populist ideas. Thus just kicking the problem further down the line until it becomes a crisis. And both the Labour Party and the Tories are guilty of this.

Borrowing to solve a problem of having too much debt by arguing it will stimulate things is a dangerous and controversial policy. Can you imagine proposing this as a business to a bank?

Arguments about tax loopholes on the other hand are better, though in part ignore some of the problems this entails and tend to rather simplify the debate. Tax loop holes have to be tackled on an international basis, not just a domestic one for it to be fully effective.

As for putting up taxes. Theres merit to it. But how much extra revenue will it actually bring in, especially since those with most money also have the most mobility. The reaction in France is interesting to watch, with a number of wealthy people moving out. Not to mention I do find it interesting that the french have deemed income tax increases to 75% as 'unconstitutional' - not because the rate is too high, that was deemed fine, but because the french are taxed as households rather than individuals so this was deemed unfair (cough, cough, comparison with child benefit changes in the uk, cough, cough).

And I do think its very easy to forget that very necessary changes to mortgage lending to ensure banks don't collapse that mean that 100% mortgages are pretty much a thing of the past, were always going to take at least 5 - 6 years to even out as it would take at least that long for first time buyers to start getting deposits that big together and that was without drops in house prices wiping out equity further up the housing chain. There was never ever going to be a quick fix solution to our economic problems, just from looking at the root causes of it.

We also, as individuals can not expect to carry on living in the way we have. Our personal debt burden was unsustainable. Like it or not, even people on good incomes haven't been living within their means for years. It does need a change in attitude from the public as well. And of course, that one isn't going to be a popular change to bring about whoever it effects.

In short I don't think that a lot of the population actually have realistic expectations nor do they have a good understanding of the complex nature of economics. Not because they are thick, or selfish, or because they are either labour or tory supporters. But because these concepts are damn complex in the first place and its made worse because you have to be actively interested in them to seek out unbiased views and facts that aren't politically twisted. Most people haven't got that motivation. Most people haven't got the luxury of time to look at things in depth and objectively. Its easier to just jump on the latest bangwagon and blame X, Y and Z.

The general public want politics to be simple. Which suits the parties and the stereotyping. They aren't though. You have to fully understand a problem to solve it. That will never include bashing anyone along party lines.

i have only voted once and it was for the peace party,even though they obviously had no chance they represented what i believed in the most.

Tories: bunch of selfish fuckers.

im suprised at all the anti tory comments on mn,mn seems extremeley tory to me.

YABVU

You could have chosen any number of derogatory things to call tory voters and you would have been either correct or at least entitled to your opinion.

But not very bright isn't one of them. Large numbers of tory voters are in top academic jobs with excellent academic degrees from top universities. They are, objectively, very bright. Yes money can help you get to the top in life but not without brains as well.

I'm sure lots of tory voters also have very low IQs. And lots of labour voters will have very high IQs. There will be a spread of intelligence across all political parties just like with everything else. You're being ridiculous.

Haven't read the whole thread, but will do. Just for now. My brother is a Tory. Anyone who has got to know me on here will know that I am anything but.
I think that people who make such sweeping general statements are dim.

This post is another boring attempt a brainwashing via idea-planting. Its pretty pathetic. Obviously in a democracy you want to have a healthy political choice.

so making the country bankrupt (which is what labour seems to do) is good for people and the future generations? You want to end up like greece? personally i think some labour voters just think of themselves - ie how much more money should the state (or other taxpayers) be giving me.

no-one can continue living beyond their means - although i guess labour and its voters would like to think so - just stores up problems though, especially for our kids who would eventually have to sort the mess out once it had got to massive proportions

Problem there, piprabbit, is that we have "nice but dim", "mean and incompetent" and "nicer, but even more dim" as our main three parties.

We're screwed as a country, we really are.
As for the OP, I don't think Tory voters are stupid, I think they're thinking about themselves and their family rather than others. Which is fair enough in principle, but bloody horrible for those on the other side!

I heard a comment about this on the Today programme this week.

In times of economic difficulty, people prefer to vote "mean but competent" rather than vote "nice but dim".

If you lead a party that is "nice and competent" you are on to a winner.

But the UK doesn't seem to have one of those.