not lack of jobs - lack of ambition!

(411 Posts)
eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 13:21:34

I know very, very little about politics, and if you can help me see this from a different perspective, please do!

A friend is a labour party member, and we recently had a row.I have a good friend (I like her for her personality, not for her life choices) who had a baby at 16 and is on benefits. She has a now 4 year old, starting school in September. She has a huge two bed flat in london (we would love to live where she does! but couldn't afford it), sky tv, the child has a nintendo ds, new clothes all the time, constant days out. I said it makes me angry that me and DP work (we also had a baby young) really really hard. Firstly, I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5. Secondly, she gets free childcare! She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working.

This is the point where we had a row. My labour friend said that it's not her fault that she's on benefits, there's no jobs to make it worth her working. However, if you spoke to my other friend, she has never even considered working. She said to me last week, when her daughter goes to full time school in sept, she has two options: 1) have another baby and get another 5years 6months, which she's planning on doing. 2)Wait until sept, then she has another 6months on job seekers to get pregnant. HOW IS THAT FAIR????? she isn't even looking after her daughter for the past two years, because she's in nursery. Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare? Why isn't she made to do voluntary work as a fully abled 22 year old with 10 gcse's, or at least made to go with her daughter to nursery and learn parenting skills, which is what I assume they think she lacks if her daughter gets so much funding!

I'm not saying that everyone on benefits/job seekers allowance isn't looking for work. I know how hard it was for DP to find work, it took months of hundreds of applications. I'm saying that while a life on benefits is so cushty and just relies on a baby every five years, no one has the incentive to work! labours answer was increase the working wage. I disagree, she's comfortable, why would she go out to work just for a few extra quid a week?

Allonsy Wed 09-Jan-13 14:36:49

I feel sorry for her it must be a horrible cycle to get caught in, being stuck at home with children dependent on the government is no life

some 'friend' you are, id be disgusted if i knew a friend spoke about my personal circumstances on online

PessaryPam Wed 09-Jan-13 14:38:34

OP you are striver and the girl you describe is a skiver. Even Liam Byrne says this. Although he seems to have forgotten his past utterances. I am glad that when austerity really hits these lifestyle choices will no longer be possible.

TheSecondComing Wed 09-Jan-13 14:42:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

grumpyinthemorning Wed 09-Jan-13 14:43:54

The fact that she has good gcses and started college doesn't automatically mean she has ambition and self-esteem, and it's very unfair of you to think that. I left school with fairly good gcses (mostly Cs, I even got an A in one subject!), attempted college twice, but my personal life really messed up my head (toxic, controlling mother). My self-esteem hit the floor, I developed a "fuck it" attitude towards work and education, went completely off the rails with drinking, sex etc. I snapped out of it when I fell pregnant with DS, but I still struggle with depression, low self-worth and horrible feelings of inadequacy.

Of course, nobody except my DP and two best friends would be able to say that about me. On the outside I'm a bouncy, happy-go-lucky person.

My point is, it's not always easy to see the issues someone is hiding. Education as an adult is patchy at best, and near impossible to arrange around small children unless you do a correspondence course (I can't because I wouldn't be able to get motivated). There are simply not enough jobs to go around. Combine these facts with any number of underlying problems, and it can pretty much cripple you. But she may not want to ask for help, or feel that even if she asks, she won't get it.

Try walking a few miles in someone's shoes before you judge them, ok?

thecook Wed 09-Jan-13 14:46:39

OP You are a shit friend.

By the way, do you claim CB or WTC?

PessaryPam Wed 09-Jan-13 14:48:46

thecook, what do you think would happen if we all decided to live off benefits?

Inertia Wed 09-Jan-13 14:49:16

Wow, what are the chances of that?! She has texted news of her pregnancy at the exact same time you are slagging her off on the internet! Still, good to know you've got time to check your phone messages, what with you being so hard at work and all.

By the way, I take it you've never claimed any child benefit or state help while your partner was out of work? Or is it only the benefits other people get which are open to criticism?

CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 14:53:18

Can people please start to see common sense and stop lumping Child Benefit in with all the other benefits?

It just makes you look silly.

Up until a few days ago, it was a universal benefit. It is in no way an indicator of whether you can afford your own children or not.

PessaryPam Wed 09-Jan-13 14:53:24

To be fair CB was introduced in return for a tax rise and is merely a way of redistributing money within a household to the mother. It would be better viewed as a tax rebate by many working people. I don't know if the OP is a net contributor or taker though.

ouryve Wed 09-Jan-13 14:54:00

I've been waiting all week to fill this particular square on my bingo card.

Your "friend" is not all unemployed people
Your "friend" is not all benefit claimants
Your "friend" is not all single mums...

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:54:59

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Vagaceratops Wed 09-Jan-13 14:55:30

I'm slagging off her choice to be on benefits, not her as a person.

If your so confident that what your doing isnt really fucking nasty, then why dont you say it to her face, and why have you hidden behind a name change?

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:57:06

I have said it to her face.If you bothered to read the thread, you'll see I encouraged her to go to citizens advice and see about some training or something. I've told her she needs to do something, her something is get pregnant again.

Vagaceratops Wed 09-Jan-13 14:57:46

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eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:59:51

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CloudsAndTrees Wed 09-Jan-13 15:00:06

I disagree that raising the working wage won't help.

It will help the millions of people who are currently struggling and are worse of in work than they would be on benefits, or if they split from their partners. Those are the people I'm most interested in helping.

Plus, if wages went up, we wouldn't have to pay out as much in working tax credits. The cost of living would be likely to rise in line with the rise in minimum wage (which I realise wouldn't help those already struggling as they would be no better off) which would effectively have the result that people in work would have more money than they would if they were on welfare, and as long as benefits don't also rise, those on welfare wouldn't be able to have such a cushy life after all.

Vagaceratops Wed 09-Jan-13 15:00:39

I bet you have not said half of the nasty things to her face that you have on this thread. Telling her to go to the CAB and get some advice about training is nothing like 'Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare?'

Vagaceratops Wed 09-Jan-13 15:01:34

Well the way you have been talking on this thread, its hard to tell if you are joking or deadly serious.

because you can live comfortably on benefits. That's the issue.

Yeah, coz they should all be having bread and water for breakfast, wearing bags on their feet rather than shoes and sending their kids up the chimneys to earn their keep.

I have never claimed benefits, I work full time as does my DH and I have a nice life thank you. I have a friend exactly like your friend, she is a single parent, her son is 10 now and she lives off benefits. Her life, none of my beeswax although I am fully aware the grass certainly is not greener on her side od the fence. It sounds like you are very bitter about your life style choices. You are obviously not happy so why don't you sort out your life and what you need to do rather than wasting energy thinking about what your "friend" should be doing.

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:02:55

Your taking it into a personal context again vagaceratops. I have known her since 4, so you can guarantee i've told her she's lazy and needs to sort her life out. It's not a sustainable way to live!

I'm at work, am I allowed to be on mumsnet?
It's a iPhone I'm using if that's any better, but I was in wetherspoons at lunchtime.

OP, like I said before, I don't know anyone who lives a fantastic life on benefits, in terms of having money for clothes, days out etc. we certainley didn't.
I'd suggest that there may be other reasons that your friend is reluctant to go to work, rather than just having such a cushy life claiming benefits.

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:04:20

my lifestyle choice means I am going to be paying for her lifestyle choices. Therefore it is my problem.And we can change how the system works by voting for parties that agree.

thecook Wed 09-Jan-13 15:05:37

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I think everyone 'knows' of someone who lives this way, because they heard it from so and so and they were told by the butchers dog. Realistically they cannot afford all those things on benefits, so it's not true. Maybe op your friend gets help from her parents? Maybe they buy the gifts for their grandchild as their own DD is struggling? It's none of your business plus you've made it up

Takeaway2's comment about knowing some who sold their council house and was in prison etc etc is interesting, you'd think it'd be rather difficult to sell a house you don't own wouldn't you....

Oi MNHQ, can we yet a yawning face please??

eggs11 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:06:12

Well as always, thread begins. The normal people answer and agree. It drags out with drip feeding OP information as i get questionned and it's only the hardcore that stay on and fight.

Glad the first few pages agreed. If you read those you'll realise you can have a cushty lie on benefits.

I'm out.

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