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To think DD aged 16 isn't going to have any income when she leaves school because she doesn't fit neatly into one of the boxes?

(97 Posts)
MarthaEntwhistle Wed 09-Jan-13 00:13:29

DD will leave school in the summer. She doesn't want to do 6th form/college. She's clever but not academic. Instead she wants to work in an outdoor adventure centre - she sees this as a future career, not just a bit of fun -and has some voluntary work lined up at a local centre, but it seems they can't offer her a job until she's 18 as she'll be supervising chilldren so needs to be 18 for that. They don't do appenticeships.

So it looks like DD will be doing outdoorsy voluntary work until she's 18. There's no colleges near us that do any outdoor adventure BTECs or anything else remotely interesting to her.

A friend told me that my DD won't be allowed to "just do voluntary" as she has to be in some sort of education. Not sure how she'll be found out, perhaps the undercover zipwire police will spot her

I am concerned about her having no income as she's not conforming by staying on in education and I'm finding it hard to get any information about what entitlements she'll have, to benefits, if any. Bit of a worry really and school/careers haven't been that helpful - just wanting to pigeon hole her into 6th form or college which she has no interest in.

AIBU to hope there's someone around who knows about this stuff?

blueemerald Wed 09-Jan-13 00:18:15

From this summer teenagers have to stay in full time education, apprenticeship or employment with part time education until 17, I suspect all organisations will be training their staff towards helping with that and they may not be aware of/interested in 16 year old school leavers.

ebersneezer Wed 09-Jan-13 00:18:30

Are their any pursuits she can gain qualifications in like climbing, kayaking? I know that's not covering the formal qualifications and income parts of your post.

HenryCrun Wed 09-Jan-13 00:19:47

You probably already have, but have you contacted these guys? www.outwardbound.org.uk/

It's a stab in the dark but they might be able to offer more constructive advice on your situation than we can.

PandaOnAPushBike Wed 09-Jan-13 00:27:27

If she's serious then this is what she's looking for.

flow4 Wed 09-Jan-13 01:00:19

I'm afraid she isn't entitled to any benefits aged 16-17 (except in really exceptional circumstances - like you threw her out and refused to support her and social services became involved).

If she stays living at home and in full-time education in an approved accredited course at level 1-3, you can claim child benefit and tax credits (if you qualify) for her. You won't get anything if she isn't on this type of course - e.g. if she is doing voluntary work, or a p/t course, or an accredited sports training course at a different level.

I think she may be required to stay in FE education/training until she is 17 now: the compulsory school leaving age is rising - to 17 from this year, and 18 from 2015. However, I'm not certain whether the changes come into force in the school year ending or beginning 2013 - i.e. 2012-13 or 13-14, so that's worth checking.

The change in law means you have a legal duty to support her in education - though I guess you could 'officially' home educate her if there isn't a course she wants to do.

It's a really awkward in-between age... My 17 yo son came close to 'dropping out' last year, and I was really worried, because the financial implications for me would have been very serious, and a gap in a young person's CV at this age can cause problems. Lots of young people find themselves 'marking time' until they're 18, and I think lots of them lose confidence and motivation meanwhile.

I wish your DD luck. smile

TinyDancingHoofer Wed 09-Jan-13 01:09:18

She could volunteer part time and work part time surely? As a waitress or in retail. Not every job you have equals your future career and when you are unable to get a job in your desired market you have to go elsewhere to pay the bills. I understand that your DD probably has very few bills right now but there is still no reason she can't get a small job to give her some work experience and income.

Also could she spend a year doing a childcare course to give her a headstart over other applicants. If she is supervising children, a first aid certificate wouldn't hurt. I don't know how outdoorsy you mean but if she got a job in a gear shop she would pick up the names of climbing/surfing/sailing equipment and a lot of useful stuff too.

smilingismyfavourite Wed 09-Jan-13 01:11:21

There are definitely careers and further education courses in outdoor education. (We tease my DH that he has a degree in tying knots as this is what he did) but you are right in that those courses might not kick in until the age of 18. In the mean time DD needs to look at what qualifications the outdoor adventure centres are looking for in order for her to have an actual career there. They are likely to want some relavant qualifications regardless of whether she has voluteered there or not. Has she previously done DoE or any other organised outdoor things where qualified instructors could point her in the right direction?

With the introduction of the new rules that teenagers need to be in fulll time education for longer, lots of collages are responding with more vocational qualifications that, while not exactly tailored to your DDs needs might help her to get onto the courses she needs at 18 in order to do what she wants to do in the future. Try to get her to be open minded in what she is doing at the moment and look at it as a stepping stone. She could probably do a vocational college course and continue to do some voluteering work. With the right backing and determination she can get where she wants to be. I love when young people have a determination and know where they want to go (I work with so many who don't care sad)

achillea Wed 09-Jan-13 01:14:14

Have you asked her what areas within that sector she wants to work in? For example she could work towards getting childcare qualifications or do first aid training or sports / physio education.

Perhaps she could choose something like this with a view to using it at the outdoor centre?

KobayashiMaru Wed 09-Jan-13 01:30:04

16 is so young to leave education, and you don't need to be very academic to do a-levels or a btec or something. and its far too young to pick such a narrow "career" option with qualifications involved. Can't you convince her to sign up to something?

HystericalParoxysm Wed 09-Jan-13 01:40:23

I know about this industry <tries not to out self. Probably fails> but its an incredibly competitive one, where I live anyway. People are falling over themselves to work long long hours for minimum wage so employers can afford to be fussy. Many of us have degrees. As with most jobs these days the written records are very important so anything involving written English would be worth perusing.

sashh Wed 09-Jan-13 01:47:49

Not exactly what she wants but I keep seeing adverts for apprentice life guards - would give her some money and a qualification that would be relevant to her chosen field.

I do think you ABU, your daughter is choosing to do voluntry work rather than college or getting a job.

ihavenonameonhere Wed 09-Jan-13 03:37:56

Could she look at doing a qualification in tourism?

My sister didnt know what she wanted to do at 16 but my parents made her do an administration course so she would at least have those skills and qualification

ihearsounds Wed 09-Jan-13 03:52:32

It's all well and good to say the op is being unreasonable. However the implication is that her dd has to remain either working or in education. This doesnt include voluntary. This means no financial support, and possible legal action?

Op is she aware of the new rules? it is really astonishing how many are unaware, and I say this as a parent with someone in y11.. Until I mentioned it to her, becuae of a thread on here, she was unaware, so is now panicking in case she doesnt get offered a college place.

AmberSocks Wed 09-Jan-13 04:00:21

you could say you are home educating her and she could then do the volunteering,theres noset requirement for what home education.

AmberSocks Wed 09-Jan-13 04:01:10

alsodont panic,she has an actual interest which is a great thing!

madwomanintheattic Wed 09-Jan-13 04:19:22

If this is really what she wants to do, then she needs to suck it up and sort something educational out for the next two years whilst working towards gaining a degree place. I'm not sure who's doing it now, but in my day it was Liverpool for outdoor ed. she should already be pursuing d of e and expedition work (tick off gold, and get some service projects under her belt with kids - try cubs or similar) and getting as much experience, first aid certification (she's old enough to have adult certs) and building up as much in her log books as she possibly can.

Back in the day, YTS used to be a really good way to do this stuff, but unless you have a particular aptitude and are junior kayaking champ or whatever, these days the only way in is graft. If she wants a cheap way into this stuff, she's better off building her way towards a degree course anyway - tons of opportunities for rock quals, as well as ad hoc mountaineering stuff.

How does her log book look? She needs to have it ready so that at 18 she can book onto her ml summer and start working through those.

Either that or she just needs to join the military as a pti. grin

Unless she has some bloody good contacts, she's going to have to have a better plan than 'a bit of volunteering' with the hope it's going to lead to paid employment in the outdoor pursuits industry. If she gets to 18 in education, she can apply for bunch work permits and fetch up in ski in the winter/ climb in the summer/ hiking type resort as a student. But really, employers are going to want to see some effort towards qualifications.

madwomanintheattic Wed 09-Jan-13 04:21:36

(She'll need the swimming stuff anyway - I assumed she was already bronze medallion tbh. Later on, she'll need deep water rescue and instructional stuff. Not sure what it's like in the UK at the mo in terms of updated quals. We upped and left. To one of those ski in the winter, climb in the summer places. grin)

AmberSocks Wed 09-Jan-13 04:31:47

When i said say you are homeeducating her i didnt mean lie or anything i meant inform the school thatshe will be home educated from next year and then they will inform the lea.

She will have moretime toork on the practical skills needed for a career in outdoor sports (and to gain qualifications)if she is not at 6th form or college.

madwomanintheattic Wed 09-Jan-13 04:49:20

It will be more expensive though - loads of courses subsidised through colleges - I didn't pay for any of my mountain leadership stuff, and clocked up most of my log book through school/ uni/ youth groups various stuff... Cadets is also good for outward bound stuff - I ended up on a winter mountaineering course that way for two weeks in the Cairngorms, as well as numerous summer courses. They used to call me to be the 'plus one' girl on d of e expeds as well, as singles weren't allowed.

Loads of ways to get experience and qualifications, but she needs to have a much more concrete plan than avoiding college for two years and then trying to get a job.

WelshMaenad Wed 09-Jan-13 05:46:35

This us my husband's field and I agree with Hysterical - if she wants to get anywhere she needs to stay on for A levels or do some sort of BTEC then look at a degree or HND course, or she's going to be outshone for every job going.

HollyBerryBush Wed 09-Jan-13 06:05:02

A person begins to be of compulsory school age on the prescribed day which either falls on or follows a person's fifth birthday. The prescribed days are currently 31st August, 31st December and 31st March, ie the term following the person's fifth birthday. A person ceases to be of compulsory school age on the school leaving date in the academic year in which they turns 16. The school leaving date is currently set as the last Friday in June. Raising the participation age (RPA, as set out in Chapter 1 of the Education and Skills Act 2008) does not affect the compulsory school age. However, its effect is that a person who ceased to be of compulsory school age but has not yet reached the age of 18 (or attained a level 3 qualification), is under a duty to participate in education or training. Source: DfE lawyers 2011-10-17

from the DofEducation site

www.education.gov.uk/vocabularies/educationtermsandtags/1840

meditrina Wed 09-Jan-13 07:08:11

"Not sure how she'll be found out"

Well, easily, if she attempts to claim any benefits!

NamingOfParts Wed 09-Jan-13 07:18:18

Martha - has she looked at joining the Army? At 16/17 she would go to the Army training college. She would learn lots of skills and get paid (well) at the same time.

outtolunchagain Wed 09-Jan-13 07:19:53

But the OP doesn't seem to be planing to claim anything, so how will they find out?

OP I think she needs to find a college course in something vaguely relevant, GCSEs are just not enough . The thing is at 18 she will competing with others who have done courses and things and she will be at a disadvantage .

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