To "grass up" this childminder to ofsted?

[Bluemonkeyspots]

Now i know the general mumsnet opinion is to mind your own business but please hear me out first, then you can tell me to mind my own business if you want ;)

Friend has started using one of her friends for childminding, she has her 2dc during the week, she has also recommended cm friend to another friend and her 1dc will be starting soon.

Cm has 3dc of her own and also watches 2dc full time for another parent.

That will be 8dc overall and 5 off them
are preschoolers.

When I asked about ratios friend said she knew cm did not have a variation for ratios but her and her friend were happy enough to carry on with the arrangment and the other mum who user the cm full time will be none the wiser as she will drop off before the other mindees arrive and pick up after they have gone home.

My problem with this is that i am a mum who uses childcare and i would be really angry if this happened to me, I don't know this mum at all but she is paying the same rate as other parents do but her dc will get much less attention and I'm also not sure that cm's insurance will be valid (not to mention car sears etc)

What would you do?

[Saltycopporn]

Probably mind my own business

[TheSkiingGardener]

That's ludicrous. Either find a way to tell other parent or report. Not fair on the kids.

[mindosa]

This is an outrageous ratio and at the very least the other parents should be made aware of it but I would probably keep my nose out of it

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

I would mind your own business to be honest.......this has absolutely nothing to do with you.

[Bluemonkeyspots]

I don't know the other parent at all though, have no idea who she is so can't have a quiet word.

She may be fine with this but I just feel if it was me who was paying hundreds of pounds a week for a cm I would want to know what was going on.

[mindosa]

yes but it isn't you

[Bluemonkeyspots]

BETTY- if she had a car crash one day with all those dc in the car would you still think I should have minded my own business?

Genuine question.

I know I could cause a lot of grief for a lot of parents who need childcare but would other parents really not want to know if this was happening with their dc?

[Tee2072]

I don't know anything about OFSTED as they aren't in NI, but I thought own children didn't count? Or something?

I would report either way, as it's not safe at all!

[DeWe]

Wasn't there some discussion in raising the number of children a cm is allowed to 8 preschoolers? I don't know whether that went through or whether it was just a discussion.
You could phone the council and ask.

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

well to be honest, I am sure the other woman will find out out exactly who the minder is looking after. When my DS was with a childminder I knew all the kids she looked after, whether they were there or not.

I am sure she is not going to go out and put all the kids in the car at once. I assume your friend would not put her kids with a total idiot and has asked the CM about car seats etc. Have you asked your friend about what happens if they need to go out in the car.......surely she wouldn't put her kids in danger. Do you even know what car she has?? Maybe she has a massive people carrier and can fit 5 kids in safely.

Genuine answer!

[Fairylea]

I'd have to report or say something. Very dangerous and I'd hate to be the other parent who had no idea!

[Dahlen]

They are breaking guidelines and voiding insurance. Should an accident happen, there will be serious repercussions. Even without one, unless the CM is fraudulently completing her paperwork, she runs the risk of being struck off if her records are randomly checked.

Changes in OFSTED may allow this sort of set up if the Coalition goes ahead with proposed changes. You could make an argument that if everyone is aware of the situation and happy with it then no real harm is being done (though it would be interesting to see if the parents would still be of that attitude if there was an accident requiring some form of compensation for treatment that was no longer available because of voided insurance...).

However, there is a parent here who is being kept in the dark, paying for a service she is no longer getting and whose children are potentially being put at risk. The words fraud, negligence and professional misconduct spring to mind. Not to mention about the possibility of an accident with 8 children to look after by one person...

It shouldn't be ignored.

If you're not by nature the reporting behind someone's back type, try being a bit manipulative and saying that some other parents have worked out what's going on because of the children saying they've been playing with X at CM's house, and that you are worried the parent who doesn't know about this will find out and may report to OFSTED.

[Bluemonkeyspots]

She has a 7 seater (so room for six kids) and as the school is only one mile away all dc will be piling in.

Friend is fine with this as she often has a carfull, I suppose you are either see car safety as a big risk or you don't (I'm pretty anal about it)

Drip feeding now but the 2 dc of the parent i don't know are really young so it's not like they can even tell their mum what's going on.

[TroublesomeEx]

Tbh I would speak with the CM directly or tell Ofsted.

I know someone who was reported for similar. She was innocent and a bit upset by it but she also understood that people take the welfare of children seriously.

Ofsted sent someone out to check up and see what was happening and all was well.

I don't know what the limits are, but they exist for a reason and her insurance would be invalidated if she had over the number of children she was allowed to.

[StuntGirl]

I just googled it and the maximum is 6. I would report her.

A) The maximum number is there for a reason.
B) Even if the other parent is happy with it it's still breaking the rules and the worst case consequence of that could be an injured or killed child.
C) If she's willing to ignore that rule what else is she ignoring?

I don't really care if it directly affects me or not. I'd still report her because if anything happened to the children I wouldn't forgive myself for not doing. If Ofsted are ok with it then no harm, no foul.

[TroublesomeEx]

Car safety is a big deal for me all of the time, but should be especially so for someone who is being paid to care for other people's children.

[CwtchesAndCuddles]

I would report, without a second thought. It would be terrible if something were to happen to a child in her care.

For all those saying "mind your own business" how would you feel if your child were at risk?

If the op came on here saying that something had happend to a child and that she had turned a blind eye she would be flamed.

[BettySwollocksandaCrustyRack]

I think if you do report her you should get all the facts first. You are going by hearsay and you don't really know what this CM's deal is do you??

[MonaLotte]

I would want to know YANBU.

[fudgesmummy]

I am a childminder and can tell you that she would only be allowed to have more than 3 children under school age if it was to cover continuity of care-ie a parent wanting to increase their days/hours,a baby sibling of an EXISTING child or the childminder herself having a NEW baby of her own. We can now grant our own variations with out asking permission from ofsted but only for the above reasons with existing children NOT to take on new ones.
Her insurance WILL NOT be valid if she has more children in her care that is permitted by law.
I would say yes you should contact ofsted but tread carefully and only do so if you are absolutely 100 percent certain that you have the facts right,I was on the receiving end of completely unfounded complaints from a malicious neighbour a few years ago and the resulting visits from ofsted were devastating to me.

[fudgesmummy]

Also to add that a minder working on their own can not have more than 6 children under 8 years under any circumstances

[MrsMelons]

I am not sure I would not be able to keep quiet, it is children's safety at risk so pretty important IMO.

I agree with what others have asaid and you do need to make sure you know exactly what is happening. Are they actually all there at the same time or are some at school/pre-school.

If she is doing nothing wrong then Ofsted checking it out shouldn't be a problem. You may able to look her info up on the Ofsted website if she is registered, not sure what info it shows about childminders - I know the pre-school records show the number of children they are allowed to take etc.

[nokidshere]

Without knowing the ages of the children it is impossible to judge what she is doing.

I care for up to 10 children at any one time but 7 of them are over 8 so they effectively don't count in my numbers.

Also you do not know the other parent. How do you know what her arranement is with the minder? If none of the children are yours then its really none of your concern.

[AlexanderS]

Just report it and let Ofsted look into it/establish the facts. You won't have to give your name. If she's doing nothing wrong then she has nothing to worry about.

"If none of the children are yours then its really none of your concern", nokidshere? The welfare of children is everybody's concern, surely? It's attitudes like that that lead to tragedies like the Victoria Climbe case.