To find myself suddenly struggling to welcome gay marriage?

(188 Posts)
grovel Tue 11-Dec-12 13:44:50

My initial reaction was "fine". As I think about it, I become rather sad that we are losing a distinctive quality in the meaning of marriage - namely that it celebrates how men and women complement each other (not only for purposes of procreation).

In every way I want equal recognition of partnerships be they straight or gay. Why then am I sad about changing the meaning of a word?

CarlingBlackMabel Tue 11-Dec-12 13:59:13

Men and women don't complement each other simply by definition of being men and women - see the Relationship, Feminism and most of AIBU for evidence of that!

They complement each other when they are best friends, in love and fancy each other. Just like same sex couples.

Marriage is a partnership between tow people who complement each other as described above.

You are either extremely precious - a MrsZilla about your wish to be in a narrow exclusive category, or homophobic. Or religious in a way that does not recognise marriage excpet in the eyes of a god who does not, apparantly, bless same sex couples.

And that is where the problem lies. I actually think religions should carry on as they like, as long as they don't break the law and as ling as the rest of us don't have to be bound by their beliefs. Maybe all cuples, gay and straight, should have Civil Partnerships, or Civil Marriage if you like, and leave the reiigious version of marriage to the religious bodies as a religious rather than legal ceremony.

I am sick of those who have it all their way already (in being able to marry) whining 'but what about meeeeeee?'

CarlingBlackMabel Tue 11-Dec-12 14:00:32

StackOverflow - good post.

Icelollycraving Tue 11-Dec-12 14:00:34

Yabu.

Rollmops Tue 11-Dec-12 14:00:39

gordysheep, what are you on about?

Yes it makes me sad too that a gay couple can have exactly the same rights to have their relationship recognised as me, a straight person, someone elses marriage is, of course, going to absolutely impact on my relationship with my DH. hmm

EasilyBored Tue 11-Dec-12 14:01:15

I think, actually, the name is everything. Everyone should be able to get married, and those people that then feel the need could have some special blessing in a church. So we can all get married, and people can be married but also 'blessed by x church' or whatever if they so choose.

Marriage has be redefined countless times over history, it's about time it caught up again.

manticlimactic Tue 11-Dec-12 14:01:30

I'm single. Am I incomplete ? hmm

KenLeeeeeeeInnaSantaHat Tue 11-Dec-12 14:03:09

YABU.

In a world filled with so much hate, why can't we embrace love in all its forms?

Proudnscaryvirginmary Tue 11-Dec-12 14:04:49

YABU

MisForMumNotMaid Tue 11-Dec-12 14:06:38

I'm all for people showing commitment to each other regardless of gender. I truely don't understand why gay marriage is an issue. As a society we are stronger if we are able to commit to things. I think I understand why marriage in any institution isn't going to be compulsory because as a non-church attendee many churches wouldn't have married me.

I wonder if your issues do go deeper than the word? I think it's a little strong to suggest you're homophobic because you question a feeling of sadness you've experienced. Change to things that are familiar can make us almost grieve for the familiar past. That doesn't mean we can't also celebrate the present and future.

GreenPetals Tue 11-Dec-12 14:08:04

Not sure why the OP got such pasting.

I am sure this is a feeling lots of people are struggling with.
The reason, as I see it, is because when we grew up, marriage meant heterosexual relationship and babies, who had been procreated by both parents in the couple.

Since the 1970/1980, things ahve changed a lot and we can now have sperm donors, egg donors etc... to gay couple and being a couple doesn't just means being heterosexual.
Some people (usually because they know some gay couples) have adapted to it fast.
Some people (usually because they don't really have any experience of gay couples) find it more difficult to align their reality, the 'outside' reality ad what they have been taught it should be.

I reckon OP that this is the reason why you feel it's OK and at the same 'it's not just quite right'

ArkadyRose Tue 11-Dec-12 14:08:26

It isn't "gay marriage", it's equal marriage - which is what it ought to have been all along. It's allowing everyone's relationships to have an equal legal standing instead of offering a paltry second-best to people who don't match the heteronormative. It's putting a stop to the appalling inequalities that still plague trans people - for instance, did you know that under current legislation if one partner in a marriage transitions to the opposite gender and wishes to have this legally recognised by a Gender Recognition Certificate, the couple must divorce - even if they wanted to stay together? And that the only option to them to have their partnership legally recognised, i.e. Civil Partnership, has no legal standing anywhere else other than the UK? Once we have Equal Marriage then there will be no two-tier system where one marriage is recognised internationally but the other isn't, regardless of the gender status of either partner.

To not want this is not only homophobic, it's also transphobic. You're basically saying the only people who deserve "real" marriage are people like you, and looking down your long nose of privilege at anyone who isn't the same.

gordyslovesheep Tue 11-Dec-12 14:09:39

blimey I am not using code grin

TheSecretSantaDNCOP Tue 11-Dec-12 14:10:11

Gay marriage is wrong.

The correct phrase is "marriage".

"Gay couples" don't go for gay walks, they don't go for gay drives in the car, they don't go gay shopping. So if a couple wants to get married they should be able to whatever sexual persuasion they are.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Tue 11-Dec-12 14:12:58

I disagree that when we were growing up marriage meant men and women and babies. There were lots of couple who just wanted to be together who did not have children.

But why is so difficult for people to change even a little bit? Personally I don't know any gay couples and I have no problem accepting it.

Why are people so egocentric that they think other peoples' private choices impact on them in some way?

LessMissAbs Tue 11-Dec-12 14:13:21

I kind of see where you are coming from. My perspective is a bit hmmn about marriage anyway. Its a funny idea when you think about it, but most people don't think. More and more I think the function of marriage is to regulate society and make people traverse through life in a certain way. Its a way of controlling and organising people, a bit like religion. Although it also has stablising benefits, it does seem increasingly outmoded when there is more equality between the sexes now.

Although looking at it that way makes me think why should gay people be denied the ability to be controlled and regulated?

TreeDecoratingAndPresents Tue 11-Dec-12 14:13:59

You're overthinking it.

I think what you are going for is that marriage is not between "man" and "woman", it has been between "a man" and "a woman" in the past. The celebration is of how their individual traits complement one another. Many of those traits will be unrelated to their genders, so actually, extending the term marriage to cover any partnership is actually fine and not an issue at all.

FrothyOM Tue 11-Dec-12 14:14:02

YABU It's all about equality (as arkadyrose explained really well)

CarlingBlackMabel Tue 11-Dec-12 14:14:15

GreenPetals - do you have difficulty adapting to the idea of heterosexual married couples using egg-donors, sperm donors, or adoption? People who marry but don't want children?

TeeElfOnTeeShelf Tue 11-Dec-12 14:15:27

Well said SSDNCOP.

Also, look at this: 60 pictures from Seattle's marriage ceremonies performed this past weekend. How can all that love be wrong? Or any different than your wedding?

grovel Tue 11-Dec-12 14:19:15

Thank you, GreenPetals. You are probably right in your analysis. Thank you too for recognising that I used the word "welcome" rather than "accept". If I was in Parliament I would be voting for the law changes. I was simply mulling over why I was less happy than I would expect to be.

I regret the OP because it was a question I had not fully thought through. I got a pasting and have learned a lesson.

trockodile Tue 11-Dec-12 14:21:19

TeeElf -was just about to post that! It is amazingly beautiful.
Op-YABU , all love is worth celebrating and living in a country which supports equality is a privelege.
And I am thrilled to hear today's news and am just hoping that everything goes through smoothly and quickly so people can realise that it will only change the lives of these who want it to.

Tee those photos made me well up.

gordyslovesheep Tue 11-Dec-12 14:23:51

Tee those pics are beautiful x

TeeElfOnTeeShelf Tue 11-Dec-12 14:27:44

I've now cried at those pictures twice.

One of my oldest friend's mothers finally got to get married last year. They've been together 40+ years.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now