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To not understand they UK class war???(236 Posts)
Right, so I was just reading the "not fitting in on MN" thread and that got me thinking about something i have thought about many times: why is it that there seems to be a bit of a class war - the whole work class versus middle class thing. I just don't understand it. I have lived in the UK for quite some time, but I just don't get it.
Why, for example, it is seen as a middle class thing for children to eat vegetables?? This is actually very personal to me, because I have just discovered that my dd is being picked on at school about the contents of her lunch box. Now it seems I know why.
Trifle is boggin! Can't beat a bit of Artic roll and some tinned mandarins
I have a full fruit bowl but I still don't have a poxy trifle
Clipped- Mainly because I like boden clothes as proper little girl stuff and it washes really well same as gap washes like new.
I have tried primark, supermarket brands but they all shrink or fade badly so would rather buy 2nd hand boden/joules . some people must think oh shes got more money than sense and I have satisfaction of paying very little. Nexts very common here.Plus if come to resale get my money back.
Re iceland thing-[they were ahead of their time back in late 90s with non gm really had a ethical stance was proud to work for them then but they they decided that their target customer was chav and dumbed down.
Out went organics, value lines
non promotional grocery lines were extortionate talking £2.50 for jar of table pepper.
They also very limited range on fresh.
Everything ebcame rounded up pricing to £1 and £2 and even then some muppets couldent add up whole numbers .
When they repackaged and pricemarked at £1 weight and size went down.
When on buy one get one free it doubled in price.
they started getting cheap battery chicken from abroad
Most of their frozen meat was from middle east.
Most stores were in run down high streets in rough areas.
They spent so little on wages that always queues.
I know how long they leave their chilled items out of fridge!
hence why chose not to shop their as think they wrong.
I know farmfoods is seen as quite low down supermarlet chain but we have large chset freezer and buy breaded fish, chips,frozen veg/icecream only couldent do whole shop in frozen food retailer but some customers did live off frozen junk and try use their milk vouchers on booze.
We studies class in alevel sociology find it strange
Think its harder these days as is class based on
job title/income bracket
wealth as it how much materialistic things people have but even low incomes seem to have plasmas , i pads ect.
I think its more complex these days.
I guess im lower middle class our like the term muddleclass as from outside looking in we live in affluent area, go affluent school ,read broadsheets, and fairly well dressed most of time.
But maybe I be flamed here but
The poster who said about her 2sons being different
I can fully understand that.
My stepson 14 has been suspended and expelled from 2 schools.
Very much doubt he leave school any qualifications
aspires to do nothing
lives in sports gear
swears, gets into fights and talks in text speak
lives on estate with his mam
now goes to sink comp.
hes so diffrent to how we live our lives and bring up our kids.
I think people are influeneced by people they spend most time with so adulst woukld be freinds/work collegues
kids-would be school freinds.
I wouldemt want my kids influenced by kids like my stepson.
To have no aspiraration, think its not cool to work hard, just be general trouble. I know thats more a moral idea more so than class thing but sits why some schools even though good locally because of class demographics the middle class parents snub them.
Also hate the way labour/guardian journos play class warfare hilst living in very nice houses, sending kids private school then say they understand the poor.
I think a person whos grown up privilaged shouldent be discriminated against but social mobility needs to improve but not sure how thse days with low wages, benefits, cost of housing everything rising the middleclass are feeling poor its now fight of the 4*4s for parking space outside local aldis.
I did witness as kid the middleclass kids moved away did well.
The ones left behind had low paid jobs/no job, council house and kids young.
So it's not for the labels then
mam29, that's a lovely insightful post. Do put jelly in your trifle though? it is honestly that straightforward
takataka, yes they were and they still enforce it on fresh fruit/veg etc
lapsed, i used to work for them and I used to serve pretty well off people by all accounts and someone who works for the bbc as a presenter was a regular in one of the shops I worked in. She used to buy a lot of bacon
Can't speak for mam, but I buy second hand Boden, m&s, monsoon etc etc as they are better made and last well in the main (always exceptions) I prefer more natural fibres wool, cotton etc so these brands offer that, and the bright cheerful primary colours I prefer as well. Second hand Tesco/matalan etc. Are less common and rarely worth paying for, may ad well buy them new in the frequent sales.
Why do you buy 2nd hand boden though mam?
Ok loath the man but few year ago john prescott did a documentry on class he asked one young girl how do you define your class she looked confused. He then said you you consider yourself working class and she said no think I be middleclass as I aint got a job!
I grew up in small rural town wales, parents split when I was 9 in 80,s was bit self concious as was bit unusual then.
My dad had good job and provided for us by buying mum a house.
But growing up we had little money. I missed some school trips, dident do instruments, rarly went anywhere, no holidays.
At secondry the faves were the middleclass kids,
My mum would describe herself as working class did ironing/cleaning jobs yet dident send me to primary on the estate and dident like me bothering with anyone from the estate.
I got 1st part time job at 15 £1.05 an hour in a poundshop then worked in supermarket through 6th form.
Mum dident think I should go uni the words ideas above your station lifes fulll of dissapointments.
I now live in large city.
I used to be a manager now sahm mum
husband has well paid managers job
we have 3kids all with unuusal names when I go wales they all say who dod you think you are jaimie oliver.There were 3emmas and 2sarahs in my class at juniors.
My kids do clubs gym, ballet/cheerleading, rainbows.
They have an annual holiday although never taken them abroad yet.
we live in leafy affluent area, their schools are in leafy affluent middleclass areas they both attend faith schools.
We are not homeowners we rent as house prices just too silly
By accident we run 2 cars as one inherited.
I guess from the outside we look well off.
But we get by.
we do online shops at waitrose/ocados
but we also shop at nearest sainsburys
do aldis, lidls and farmfoods-love pound shops
Buy mostly 2nd hand boden and joules clothes for the kids.
But I detest asda alawyas have bad time in ours
I would say im slightly more exotic and experimenta with cooking than my mums ever was she hated cooked and was mostly frozen or readymeals.
I remember with pfb weaning decided up to age 2 everything must be organic. I turned into pureeing maniac putting hm babyfood into tubs and the price of foodbill shot up loads.
Fruit and veg is huge cost for us as try keep full fruitbowl
Managed to breastfeed all 3, used cloth so family from home think im middleclass hippy
A lot is about perception.
I see it alot on fb not sure if people trying to advertise their wealth their good lifestyle or their class.
1 fb freind puts on her status that her 1year olds childs tea is fgrilled lemeon sole with new potatoes and veg-I mean ffs
she also eats at pizza express and gourmet burger company
always phptographs the boden and next which i thinks borderline chav dont think they rich but she portrays and works hard to say she is middleclass.
I dont care as long as we got money to get by and happy.
I think its more how others judge you as dds old primary used to be very snobby and cliquey.
lapsed wasn't Iceland the first to have a no GM policy?
Fuckers I now want a trifle
!"Middle-class folk, born and bred, dropping into the vernacular"
My ex made a big thing of being working class (he was a freelance writer who liked cocktails and would only pay for travel costs in cash, not by a travel pass, because it was 'cool' that way) and it was excruciating when he encountered fake DVD sellers ('C'mon mate, here mate, let's see whatcha got') or kebab shop owners ('Hello boss, portion of chips please boss, nah boss, just red sauce boss')
Germans don't count <gavel>
No, it's clear that certain nationalities, particularly Germans and Swedes can work as nannys while being solidly middle class. You're probably being a nanny for some high minded reason such as to experience other cultures and improve your education.
MissNJE my grandma is german (maternal side) and she is most definatley MC although not highly educated.
I am not English and don't understand the class thing but I often wonder what an English person would 'class' me in.
I come from a very MC (what would be considered MC in Germany) family, was privately educated, went to boarding school and I currently study Economics at a Russell Group HOWEVER I work as a nanny to support myself
to be financially independent from my parents . I live in a MC class area and shop at Waitrose. I eat organic food, cut out sugar and gluten and i choose wine over vodka :-)
What else would be important to define my 'class'?
Some of the comments I read on MN about food and nutrition are mind-bogglingly snobbish and ill-informed. Sneery comments about tinned fish and frozen meat and vegetables (which are just as nutritious as the fresh kind) for example, and as for the judgy-pants that get hoiked whenever Iceland is mentioned!
Iceland actually do an excellent range of budget staples, including fresh fruit and veg, meat and dairy, as well as incredibly cheap frozen tuna and salmon steaks etc. They also offer a free delivery service if you spend more than £25.
Definately a class thing too. If you are on a v. tight budget without access to a car, then doing a daily shop for fresh food to cook from scratch is often out of the question. If you are lucky enough to have a decent sized freezer you can get away with a weekly shop and a cheap return bus-ticket. And food that can be prepared in a microwave saves a hell of a lot on fuel bills compared to using a cooker.
Chaps, I like that name.
I don't really eat meat now, but I used to love a bit of liver - and kidneys too.
Our local butcher sells pigs' cheeks. I ate them when I was small - living in Rutland - and they are known as 'chaps'. It's just a sort of ham and delicious.
And who eats brawn without knowing what goes into it?
My sons dad loves cow foot! It's one of his favourite meals, and chicken foot soup and pigs trotters and peas. Blurgh.
A friend of mine used to eat pigs trotters, but after seeing her pluck the bristles out with her eyebrow tweezers, I don't fancy them much.
Leave our pigs trotters alone
No...though I'm sure if they could fit it in to their "theme" they would. The food was nice and all but I was a bit at the price of the pigs trotters when I spotted them on the menu!
Did they also do jellied eels Alis?
Funbag...they do! I've eaten at a restaurant where they do just that!
It wouldn't surprise me if pigs trotters are now sold in poncy restaurants as an ironic thing.
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