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In thinking that good make-up is deceptive?

(220 Posts)

Well of course it's supposed to be. That's the whole point of it. Even very subtle make-up is worn to make us look prettier, younger, healthier. This morning, I was rushing around trying to get four DCs ready to get two of them to panto rehearsals, and then on to my parents house, yet I 'had' to find the time to put some make-up on.

I've been told that I am pretty, but it is all an illusion. I scare even myself with my bare reflection sometimes. I won't go out of the house without at least some concealer under my eyes, mascara and blusher. It makes me feel weird, almost naked. I would love to have the confidence to go make-up free, but the odd time I have been to work without a full face of slap, I have been questioned about the state of my health.

I have four DDs, and hope that at least one of them doesn't turn out as vain as her mother grin.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 23-Nov-12 18:06:57

I agree with waterlego - the two posters saying that they want to stop women on the street without makeup and give them a makeover shocked me.

I don't wear make up except occasionally when going out, and even then not every time i go out. That is a conscious decision on my part - it could hardly not be, given the overwhelming norm is to wear it, as supported by the proportions on this thread. It isn't because I'm baffled by make up, or need help with make up. If someone came up and offered me a makeover because I wasn't wearing any make up, I'd be very alarmed by their presumption.

waterlego Fri 23-Nov-12 16:38:10

I realise that the perception is that those of us who say we don't wear make-up are somehow naturally beautiful enough to not need it. For some, I'm sure that is the case, but not for me! Like others here, I suffered acne on my chin and around my mouth (hormonal, apparently) since I was about 18 (had really clear skin as a teenager, ironically). Now, it is mostly under control but there is a lot of scarring. I'm sure some people must look at me and be horrified that I'm not wearing foundation but I have to make myself not think about that because it doesn't matter.

I am a very, very ordinary looking woman. I look my age and some of the time, I probably look quite ugly really. It is easier to be make-up free in the summer because a bit of colour makes all the difference. My winter skin is pretty grey and patchy. I currently have a couple of little spots. People are just going to have to deal with looking at it because it's just me. Luckily, the people in my life who love me don't seem to mind. They might all secretly be wishing I would have a 'makeover' but happily, none of them has ever said so.

Oblomov Fri 23-Nov-12 15:55:16

I too think that heavy make-up is really quite nasty and does the wearer no favours at all.

Oblomov Fri 23-Nov-12 15:53:05

Some women in the playground of a monring wear far too much make-up. It does seem to be caked on. I think that actually looks worse than none at all.
There are lots of natutally beautiful women in ds's playground, that I am positive wear not a speck of make-up. They are the beautiful ones I most notice.

SinisterBuggyMonth Fri 23-Nov-12 15:38:23

Ditto above. I have hellish rosacre, coupled with very pale grey eyes on a bad day I could pass for a Zombie. When I put make up on I am not trying to emulate a tv celeb or model, I am trying to effect the same normal skin as my friends, family and collegues. I dont need to be told by someone else on tv, mags or a thread about how I should be presenting myself, I know what works for me at this time of life and it camouflage, when I was younger it was all about emphasising, self expression and exageration, lots of glitter and alot more fun. I wouldnt force a make over on someone else because its not up to me. But I have lived with my face all my life and it entirely up to me how I present it to the outside world.

FamiliesShareGerms Fri 23-Nov-12 15:13:14

I really wish that I had decent skin, so I could do the make up free thing, but adult acne (and scars from teenage acne) mean "no make up" actually means concealer at the least.

Diana2000 Fri 23-Nov-12 15:08:39

ICBINEG you said women who wear makeup look "insecure, shallow and desperate". That's an extremely bitchy comment.

And IMO it rather detracts from your argument that not wearing makeup makes you a better person (harming society as a whole, etc).

waterlego Fri 23-Nov-12 14:42:52

I do worry about our societal obsession with physical appearance. Not to the point of banning anything but I do find it very sad (and I mean sad in its true sense) that there is quite a number of women saying they 'need' make-up, or 'can't' leave the house without it. It gives the impression that those women are trapped in doing something they might not otherwise do, just because it is expected.

I wear a bit of concealer and mascara if I'm going out in the evening or to a special event. Because I don't wear make-up at other times, it makes me look quite different and people notice. I like that. If people wear a full application of it every day, they look no different on a night out.

Luckily for me I can't wear eyeshadow or lipstick anyway because I have quite small features so they make me look old/drag queenesque.

Quite affronted by a couple of posters saying they want to 'get their hands on' women they see not wearing make-up. Yes, how very dare they enter a public space with no make-up on. hmm Makeover? MASSIVELY patronising.

squoosh Fri 23-Nov-12 14:05:45

You're sounding more than just a little silly now, smoking and binge eating have obvious ill effects on people's health. Makeup doesn't.

And yes, I realise you're not 'feeling' it, you've made that quite clear. But I'm afraid until you manage to set up your own dictatorship it is and will continue to be the reality.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:59:29

I would like to point out that is really isn't okay to eat your next door neighbours even if you really really REALLY want to. <legal disclaimer>

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:58:47

sorry I started speaking in tongues in the middle of that post...oh well I am sure the point was blisteringly clear as always...

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:57:45

If people want to smoke then the only reasonable argument they need is that they want to?

If people want to eat themselves spherical then the only reasonable argument they need is that they want to?

If people want to eat themselves kill their NDNl then the only reasonable argument they need is that they want to?

hmmm no, not really feeling that one.

Wanting to do something doesn't automatically give you the right to do it ...especially if it harms society as a whole....

obvs you have the right at the moment...but who knows in the future...

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:55:36

"Nasty as well as sanctimonious" yeah...the truth is often perceived that way by people who don't want to hear it.

Regardless of the society based pros and cons, heavy make up really does look shit....or have people been so brainwashed they now think that special fake tan day glo orange look is attractive??

squoosh Fri 23-Nov-12 13:37:40

If people want to wear makeup that is the only 'reasonable argument' they need.

Diana2000 Fri 23-Nov-12 13:36:07

Heavy make up doesn't make you look more attractive, it makes you look insecure, shallow and desperate to hang on to the remnant of your youth.

Nasty as well as sanctimonious.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:32:13

People have been beauty queens for ever....yes almost certainly but we have also historically culled the weaker members of our society...and not allowed women to lead in religion.

I think we have moved beyond the point where "because we have always done it" is a reasonably argument for continuing.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:30:25

WTAF?

I haven't said that women that wear make up are evil? I haven't said that make up is evil (probably). It's just that it's influence on society doesn't seem to me to be a positive one...

I certainly won't be bringing up my DD to think all people who wear make up are insecure or evil. <hey DD can you see that womans lack of confidence writ large in her motorway blusher>

I will however be stressing whenever possible that appearance isn't as important as what's inside. I think wearing make up myself while doing that would be hypocritical and undermining of the central message I want my daughter to take away. That is all....

squoosh Fri 23-Nov-12 13:22:28

And 'one must never look one's best' is a Good Thing?

Preserved Iron Age men found in Ireland were found to have been wearing hair gel. Humans are amongst other things, vain, narcissistic creatures. Always have been.

Gettheetoanunnery Fri 23-Nov-12 13:20:41

I do get what you're saying, how it's damaging to young girls to be under that amount of pressure to look good. It just doesn't sit right with me to give them such a bad view of women who do wear makeup.

Gettheetoanunnery Fri 23-Nov-12 13:18:04

But bringing your daughters up with the opinion of 'its evil to wear makeup' isn't giving them a healthy opinion on women who choose to. I'd much rather bring my daughter with the belief that you can be beautiful with or without makeup. The Roald Dahl quote comes to mind...
"A person who has good thoughts cannot ever be ugly. You can have a wonky nose and a crooked mouth and a double chin and stick-out teeth, but if you have good thoughts they will shine out of your face like sunbeams and you will always look lovely.”

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:17:50

get I am glad your self confidence is such that you can take or leave make up and hence have a free choice.

But that is not true for everyone.

The same arguments are used for Burkhas etc. That no one is forcing anyone to wear one...it's just that everyone happens to choose to do so in certain geographical locations.

And yes a whole load of people probably are happy and confident in that choice. But a whole load aren't and feel forced to comply with their local societal model of correct dress.

Same with make up. Undoubtedly some people just wear it for fun (because a layer of synthetic grease on your face feels soooo nice) but a whole lot of people are being driven to conform to the societal expectation that "one must look ones best" and that is a Bad Thing.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:13:04

People do get that don't they? That if make up didn't have the negative side affect of undermining girls confidence then I wouldn't give a shiny shit if people wore it?

The ONLY reason I care is because our societal obsession with appearances and beauty is so damaging to vulnerable girls.

Gettheetoanunnery Fri 23-Nov-12 13:12:49

So you've gone round asking every single woman why they wear make up and they've all told you they do it for the men?

Well you've obviously not asked me, I wear it cos I like it and I don't give a fig what anyone else thinks.

ICBINEG Fri 23-Nov-12 13:10:29

yeah well if all teenage girls were happy and healthy then I too wouldn't give a shit about whether people wore make up or not.

But they aren't. A lot are very unhappy and very unhealthy because of societies obsession with appearance and beauty.

If my daughter is happy and healthy and adores make up then we will agree to disagree. If I have another DD then we will have to see...I wouldn't want one DD undermining the others confidence in what's inside being the most important thing.

Noren Fri 23-Nov-12 13:10:02

Squoosh, I didn't say ALL women. But clearly, there are women who feel they have to.

There's another argument about why you want to, but I won't get into that.

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