To think that the parents of bullies have it easy

(171 Posts)
EnyainIkea Thu 15-Nov-12 23:56:00

Because I see the efforts that the VICTIMS of bullying have to make to get support. They have to go through the hoops of trying to convince teachers and headteachers that they have a case in the first place. They have to convince these people that their child is not making it up, exaggerating, over-reacting and then wait.... whilst they hope the problem is being tackled by the school.

The parents are usually left in the dark about what "measures" are being taken to tackle the bullying behaviour "because that's confidential and can't be discussed". They have to reassure their children that they are trying to help and, of course, they did the right thing by telling them because now we can help you when, in actual fact, the parent feels absolutely powerless.

And then there are the meetings where it's suggested that your child is maybe not robust enough or needs to walk away from situations, or learn to stand up for themselves. You end up thinking that you need to move YOUR child from that classroom or, worse still, the school.

AIBU in thinking that the parents of the "accused" bullies are having it easy in comparison to this?

And BTW I would LOVE to hear from parents who have children who have been accused of bullying for the simple reason that I have never heard your side of the experience and it would help me immensely to know what YOU go through!

BeatTheClock Mon 19-Nov-12 14:26:23

1, 29 or 129 if people are behaving badly they should be corrected and punished. If people break the law in a crowd the police don't just say oh well there's too many, lets just forget it. They look at cctv and go after individuals. Even in a crowd we're all responsible for our own actions.

Saying you can't is giving a message that its ok to bully en massehmm

No blame sounds like it was invented by a bully to torment people further.

Narked Mon 19-Nov-12 14:35:31

If it gets to the stage where a whole class is bullying one child the schol have completely failed in their duty of care. I'd move the child (for their sake) and threaten the school with legal action unless they accepted how useless they'd been, individually and collectively, apolgised to the child for their failure and came up with and implemented a whole new approach to dealing with bullying.

ReallyTired Mon 19-Nov-12 14:47:15

I have expressed an opinon that a no blame approach is the best way to stop non violent group bullying. I have also expressed an opinon that its often 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other in conflicts between small children.

State schools do not have the luxury to expel kids at whim. Its called inclusion. It typically takes two years to permamently exclude a child.

Prehaps its worth looking at WHY Billy Nomates has no friends. Prehaps Billy Nomates has undiagnosed autism or prehaps no one has taught him basic social skills. In some cases Billy Nomates parents make Billy's plight worse by being contrantational with the school rather than working as team. Prehaps Billy has been brought up to be a spoilt brat with no boundaries. A good school will help Billy to make friends and be happy.

Waits for the poster BillysMum to ask for this post to be deleted.

Children with severe autism can learn how to function and make friends, but this requires funding. It also requires parents to realise that Billy has a serious problem.

When I got bullied my parents were a nightmare. My father made my newly qualified primary school teacher cry. He was every bit as bad as the bullies he complained about. I am sure that my parents were partly responsible for me getting bullied.

I suppose the difference between me and other posters is that I have not allowed childhood experiences to make me bitter as an adult.

Moosylorris Mon 19-Nov-12 14:52:50

I am so glad I read this, you couldn't have described my situation better though after a hellish 18months we are at the point where if what's been put in place doesn't work it's home schooling for us. I dare to hope but expect to be disappointed.

"I suppose the difference between me and other posters is that I have not allowed childhood experiences to make me bitter as an adult."

hmm Have you read any of the posts from those who have been bullied?

I agree with Tigga if you have. My first response to that comment would have been enough to get my post deleted.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 19-Nov-12 15:03:06

Narked I wish more ht's were like yours.

Really. Taking the example of 29 bullies what you are talking about is pack following and yes how you deal with it is by the person who is in authority challenging and punishing it.

If you don't its a bit like saying ohhh well the majority of the people have behaved badly possibly criminally but never mind lets let them because loads of people did it.something does not become ok because more people do it.

And i would be very interested in seeing any respected study that confirms kids with special needs are more likely to be bullies because I'm pretty sure you are talking out of your arse.
Ime they are more likely to be targets.

I have only ever experienced bullying once in my life it was in work and by my boss ( who was a senior social worker) she encouraged the rest of the team to join in it was systematic constant and spilled over into actual physical violence, I ended up taking 6 months off sick by the time I returned the entire team had resigned all insisting on exit interviews and talked about the bullying culture she encouraged and all saying that hr should talk to me as I had got the brunt of it.and admitting they had taken part.

As it happened I had kept diarys covering everything and even tapes from my answer phone ( a 4.45 am phone call with her screaming down the phone that I was a cunt) after a fashion and discovery that she had been moved upwards and sideways due to allegations of bullying then a tribunal she was sacked. She may have thought I made a good victim but she was wrong I expect she regretted picking me when she had her BMW repossessed.

Narked: Your HT was a star, I wish there were more like her sad

BeatTheClock Mon 19-Nov-12 15:23:18

I think a good school encourages tolerance and kindness. That is being inclusive. Actually I think they should insist on it and take measures against anyone who can't demonstarte such behaviour. Not sit about chatting with bullies and telling them they're not to blame.

What if there are no discernable reasons why someone singled out. Why must the fault somehow be his just because the majority are going along with it?

Narked Mon 19-Nov-12 15:23:23

She was. I can't imagine what would have happened to my life if, having finally gotten to the stage of utter desperation and told my parents, nothing had changed. Even if I'd have been moved it wouldn't have overcome how they'd made me feel. Them being the ones forced to leave made me feel amazing. Because I actually liked school. I liked and got on well with just about everyone else.

I had an brilliant time in sixth form.

Anonymumous Mon 19-Nov-12 15:27:28

ReallyTired, I was bullied for wearing a hearing aid. BillyNoMates indeed - I guess I got what I deserved. hmm

I think the difference between you and other posters is that your parents cared enough to go steaming into your school and do something about it when you got bullied. Your father may have made your teacher cry, but I bet she kept a closer eye on you after that.

I'm not a bitter adult. I like the person I became, and a good part of that was a direct result of not wanting to be like the people who bullied me. But I do get bitter about people who seem to think that children should put up with being bullied. Adults wouldn't put up with it from their bosses - there is even specific legislation in place to prevent it. If you don't get on with someone socially as an adult, no-one forces you to spend time with them. You can change jobs, you can move house, you can report people to the police for assault or harassment... Children are STUCK with whatever situation adults choose to dump them in. If it is unacceptable for an adult to be bullied, it should be a thousand times more unacceptable for it to happen to a child - instead we shrug it off as normal and just ignore it.

I actually think that attitude makes me compassionate rather than "bitter".

Narked Mon 19-Nov-12 15:27:42

When I read about people who were left to suffer or whose DC are suffering now it makes me angry because it can cause so much damage. I was lucky.

Narked Mon 19-Nov-12 15:30:12

I have been left with the habit of (metaphorically) donning my pants ouside my trousers and leaping to the defence of other people when I think that they're being treated unfairly. Whether they need help or not. blush grin

Anonymumous Mon 19-Nov-12 15:31:35

Narked, same here! grin Defender of the Underdog, that's me!

Primrose123 Mon 19-Nov-12 15:41:19

ReallyTired, you are doing what so many schools are doing, blaming the victim, or the victim's parents.

Let's see what you said, undiagnosed autism, no basic social skills, confrontational parents or spoilt brat with no boundaries. Well, sorry, but none of those applies to my DD. And if you were right, surely my younger DD would be bullied too? She wasn't.

Furoshika Mon 19-Nov-12 15:42:18

I was bullied for getting good marks. I never once flaunted this, or did anyone down for not getting the same - I kept myself to myself and got on and did my work and had my small circle of friends. It's an old old story, I know several people who've had the same and there will be thousands more like me. What the hell could I have done aged 11, 12 to stop the daily taunting? It is ridiculous to say 'you have to ask why it happens'.

Oh and why I was bullied? Because I looked different as I was the only mixed race child in my school. Because my best friend was the one with no hair and a wig. Because I had a big nose. Because I had short hair. Because I bit my nails. Because I had slightly darker skin. That was primary.

My first secondary: I had a funny name that nobody could pronounce without help. I had a funny name that nobody could spell without help. I kept to myself. I didn't want to wear make up. I didn't like the same music. I didn't want to not wear sorts under my skirt so that people could see my undies when my skirt was pulled up. I wanted to do my work. I had a big nose. I was the only mixed race child in my school (apart from my sister) I was one of four children out of 1000 who wasn't white. I was an easy target. etc.

My second high school: because on the first day the girls in my form were talking about sucking guys off in the toilets and I said I didn't want too. We were 13. Because I was different. I liked the wrong music. I didn't wear make up. I didn't wear a skirt. I looked funny. I was the only mixed race child out of a school of 400. And all of the reasons mentioned above.

Kids will think of any reason. I was not socially inept before the bullying. I wasn't a spoilt brat. My parents were not confrontational in the least. I am not on the asd spectrum. I was just different.

Nice victim blaming there.

BartimaeusNeedsMoreSleep Mon 19-Nov-12 16:15:10

Argh I wrote a post but MN went poof and I lost it angry

Anyway, to sum it up.

I was not billynomates. I had a best friend, 3 good friends and a larger group of friends.

I was verbally bullied for 5 long years. So was my best friend.

Why was I bullied? Well, I was quiet, got good marks and kept to myself. I was told I was "posh" (read I didn't swear every other word or have the strong regional accent).

I never reacted to the bullies (apart from crying at home) so I wasn't bullied to see what reaction they would get - it was very boring for my bullies I suspect. Still, I was bullied constantly. In the classroom, in the playground, at breaktime, at lunchtime, you name it.

My bullies did not have bad home lives. They were not spoilt brats and did not have SN. They were just highly unpleasant children who liked ganging up on others and laughing at them.

My bullies were the in-crowd at school. The ones who didn't study, who smoked, who were very sexually active. I was not "cool" and with hindsight I reckon I annoyed my bullies by not trying to ingratiate myself with them, not trying to be accepted.

BartimaeusNeedsMoreSleep Mon 19-Nov-12 16:18:28

Am very angry at the victims being blamed.

Ok I could possibly have tried to join the in-crowd in order to be "accepted". But why should I have to change who I am in order not to be picked on?

And anyway, I suspect if I had tried to be like them I would still have been bullied, I just wouldn't have found my own group of friends, I would have been alone.

I think the parents of my bullies did have it easier than my parents. Because they never knew their DC were bullies (at least not on my account). Because it was just low-level permanent bitching and picking on me. It never went anywhere.

IneedAsockamnesty Mon 19-Nov-12 16:23:01

And rt you may as well have just said its acceptable to bully a sn child or one with autism because they are different and may struggle to make friends, for that alone your decidedly unpleasant.

Narked Mon 19-Nov-12 16:31:38

It's not just victim blaming to look at the child being targeted, it's also totally misleading.

Bullying changes a child. I would never have been described as quiet or anxious or self-conscious before I was bullied. After five years of it, getting slowly but steadily worse, I was a different person. You learn to make youself small because you don't want to attract their attention. You don't join in with anything that might give people a chance to make fun of you like drama or getting changed to do sport. Other DC the bullying and though they might still be happy to chat to you etc aren't going to go out of their way to put themselves in the crosshairs by becoming close friends with you. If you'd have watched me you might have assumed that the consequences of the bullying were actually the causes.

I was lucky in that I lived a long way from the school so home was safe for me - I never saw anyone from my school within 7 miles of my house. And it was pre internet/mobile phones.

shesariver Mon 19-Nov-12 16:49:12

I thank my lucky stars we have moved away as although I previously thought of it as running away staying next door to my DSs bully would have destroyed him and us all eventually. Why was he picked on? Probably initially because my DS was and had everything this boy didnt - a loving family that included a really good active and caring Dad role model (disclaimer - I have been a single parent to and Im not slagging off families without a Dad in the home, only saying what happened in this situation.)

He was a new neighbour and my DS being the kind boy he is (and using his present social skills thanks) tried to be friends, that lasted a few weeks before he started to terrorise him, shortly after my DH helped his Mum get him in the house after he attacked her in the street, with her permission. Policeman that charged him with the one assualt we could prove said it was the second worse neighbour dispute he had seen in his career, and all caused by a 10 year old child.

No way was I or any of my family ever at fault. I dont view my DS through rose tinted specs either, and he is not spoilt. I despise your victim blaming posts really and pity your lack of understanding what people here have either went through themselves or see their chidlren go through, whilst feeling helpless to help them - because of people with attitudes like yours. Sitting down talking with them, dont make me laugh.

Where we live, children are usually attending what we call pre-school since 2 or 3yo.
Last year DS was 4, and started talking about how he and his friends didn't want to paly with one of the boys at his class. I asked him why, and he in fact didn't know - "I think it's because he's silly", he said.

I tried to talk to him, and explain why he shouldn' be excluding the little one. But he said: "But then my friends will think I'm silly too!"

I talked and talked, I told him about how I felt when I was bullied (yes, I was), but nothing changed.

So I decided to talk to the people in charge for the pre-school - and they say that was no big deal. But I remember it WAS a big deal when it was with me - and called the other parents involved (not the bullied one). Nobody knew it was happening! Asking their kids, they all confirmed that the boy was always left alone.

We gathered our kids and made some suggestions of how they could include the boy. Things got better, now he is accepted the way he is.

This year, one boy decided to exclude another - but DS told me he wouldn't let him, that it was an "ugly thing to do"... That made me so proud!

But the point is: sometimes little kids just don't know exactly why they do it - they just follow someone. But on the other hand, if us, the parents of the bullies, hadn't do anything, things would get worse.

So, at this age, we MUST do something. Miserablemoo, please, please go talk to whoever is responsible for your kid's nursery!

DrCoconut Mon 19-Nov-12 19:00:28

I was bullied at school. I was vulnerable because my dad was seriously ill (he died when I was 6) and my mum was very stressed. We would often have to deal with hospital admissions etc and life revolved round medication and drs appointments. I guess though it was no ones fault it rubbed off on me and marked me out. At primary I was ostracised and excluded. I had very few friends and couldn't get in with the others really. When I was in my teens the bullies framed me for graffiti and laughed their heads off as I was forced to clean it off. They mocked the way I walked, talked, everything. They even took the piss out of the fact that my dad died and said I was so ugly no one would ever go out with me. I did all I could to stay below their radars and became a quiet little mouse who wouldn't do anything that may make me stand out. I blame them in part for the fact that I ended up in an abusive relationship, I was so grateful to have someone after being made to feel so unworthy that for a while I never questioned his behaviour. It has taken me literally years to build any sort of self esteem and I have no sympathy with bullies unless they are so disabled they genuinely can't help it. Anyone who knowingly makes anyone else miserable is a low life scrote who deserves all they get.

SinisterBuggyMonth Mon 19-Nov-12 21:49:00

hmmm why was I singled out.

Well in primary school I had ecsema, most of the kids, and some of the parents thought it was contagious. Hopefully attitudes have now changed towards this very common skin complaint.

At secondary school I, like many others on here, was bullied by the in crowd. It wasnt just excullsion, I did nothing to seek out the attention of this crowd, me and my small group of friends kept ourselves to ourselves. We werent overly academic, but we werent thick either, some of us had talents, some of us smoked, we had petty arguements, we laughed alot. For some reason the popular set decided to target us, 3 of us relentlessly. I cannot understand why, we posed no threat, we were happy to be left alone.

The no blame thing would not work on the girls who spat on us, kicked us, verbally bullied us, stared at us, laughed at us and stuck snot on our books. It might have made the followers stop and think for a second, but the pschopaths that carried this out? I cant imagine somehow.

The ringleader, the most popular girl in the class, was my nextdoor neighbour, lucky me. When a teacher suggested she was jealous of me I really couldmt see anything obvious. She had 2 parents, 3 siblings, a bigger nicer house, new clothes all the time. She was popular, she had nothing to gain by spending her time bullying me. The only reason I can think of is she was using me and my friends as am example of what would happen if any of her close friends decided to not follow her anymore.

I'm trying to empathise you see, because I can do that, I would never kick or spit on someone because I can put myself in the victims place. Bullies cannot, or actively choose not to.

Oh and the bullying changed me, I wasnt able to befriend groups of women until I hit my 30's. Thats not through bitterness, but fear.

miserablemoo Mon 19-Nov-12 21:59:14

Thank you ever so much wallison and rudolphdefender for your help. We did not mention nursery at all yesterday and I had my happy son back. This morning he woke at 6am crying and asking to come into my bed (which he never does unless ill) We had tears all through breakfast, all the way to nursery and when he arrived. I had another quick word with the teacher (it's so busy in the morning it's hard to talk, especially when you have other parents that also want to talk to them) I said he is scared of said boy and have asked if I can move him if he carries on being upset. The teacher is frustrated I think because I do think they are doing what they can (keeping an eye on both of them and the other boy gets put in time out which is for majority of the time) but it's not enough for me. I picked him up and she said briefly that there were a few incidents but they delt with it. I am angry that I am going to have to move my son, uproot him and for him having to start building new friendships again because one boy will not leave him alone. These are 3 and 4 years olds! I can go to the head teacher but realistically what can he do? My son doesn't feel safe and is desperately unhappy and this is in a space of a week. Sorry to go on. I never ever thought I would be experiencing this with a 4 year old in nursery. It makes me even sadder when I know that this child will be in the same reception class as mine so this could rear its ugly head again in a year’s time.

I was bullied but a lot later in life. I had a parent that didn't really care. To read that I was in some way asking for it is very upsetting. I am not bitter but it has shaped who I am and not in a good way. It scares the hell out of me with the way bullies can get into every aspect of another persons life now. I could go home after school and sob my heart out in my room with the door shut and no one would know (or care). But now with social media and mobile phones, children will be experiencing this bullying 24/7. They have nowhere to hide. I worry how I am going to get my children through school unscathed. When people think that the victim is in some way to blame then I cant see a way forward.

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