To not buy a poppy

(493 Posts)
Hippymum89 Fri 09-Nov-12 10:38:30

Why is it more important to remember the death of a soldier who died fighting for the country (or so he believed) than the death of every other person who has died?
What about all the others who have died helping others? Were their lives less important? Or the little old lady who died in hospital at the age of 97, she didn't kill any Germans, or rescue people. She lived her life, but doesn't that count?
I think poppys glorify war and therefore murder, so I will not be buying one.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Sun 11-Nov-12 15:23:38

And it's lovely to navel gaze in peace time but if we had been in a state of war bet no one would be agonising about this.

ZombiesAreClammyDodgers Sun 11-Nov-12 15:21:42

YABU. Those soldiers died for other people's agendas. And they deserved to live.
YABVU.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 11-Nov-12 15:08:32

Yes it was lazy linking and served only to prove you cannot back up your claim that huge numbers of soldiers are rapists.

Oh please "war on women". Pull the other one.

ArmyOfPenguins Sun 11-Nov-12 15:02:53

Well that was just the first page of a google search - apologies for lazy linking. However, it cannot be denied that rape is used as a weapon of war and always has been. It's well documented. The soldiers doing the raping were demonstrably not stopped by their colleagues, so I cannot see most of them as innocents and heroes.
Sorry about that. I would wear a poppy if there was also some sort of symbol to remember that there's an ongoing war on women.

Solopower1 Sun 11-Nov-12 15:02:46

Please don't go down this route! The vast majority of service men and women are decent human beings, just like the vast majority of celebrities are not paedophiles ... The vast majority of any profession are just doing their jobs.

War brings out both the worst and the best in people.

bureni Sun 11-Nov-12 15:02:30

This year is more important to me than most others since it is the centenary of the RBL and the 30th anniversary of the Falklands war. Closer to home this year is the 25th anniversary of the Enniskillen massacre when Irish terrorists planted a bomb at the Remembrance Sunday ceremony in 1987 and earlier this week I attended the funeral of a young woman killed in Afghanistan a fortnight ago, whether or not you agree with the politics that put the soldiers there is one thing but I feel it is everyones duty to support our troops regardless of the politics involved.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 11-Nov-12 14:48:52

One of those links no longer works.

There is no evidence that the allegations on the Tehran Times forum is anything other than allegations. Accused not convicted. Plus I'm not convinced news from Iran is exactly reliable.

The daily mail ones are about isolated incidents.

So...no you can't provide any evidence that a huge number of British soliders are rapists.

ArmyOfPenguins Sun 11-Nov-12 14:43:38
ArmyOfPenguins Sun 11-Nov-12 14:40:54
Alisvolatpropiis Sun 11-Nov-12 14:37:09

I'd like some proof that "huge huge" numbers of soldiers are rapists ArmyofPenguins

Btw today isn't just about those in the army and commemorating them.uts about all the war dead and veterans. That'll include the Navy and the RAF.

ArmyOfPenguins Sun 11-Nov-12 14:33:01

Soldiers may well have to kill in the line of duty, but they don't have to rape do they? But they do, in huge, huge numbers. Including rape of their own female colleagues.

Solopower1 Sun 11-Nov-12 14:28:33

Lest we forget, Icetip.

It's so sad that otherwise normal human beings can be brutalised this way, by war and fear and hatred. No doubt these soldiers had it in them to be brave and self-sacrificing in war - so why such violent, vindictive bullies in occupation?

Someone at some point has to break the cycle.

icetip Sun 11-Nov-12 13:24:30

I stood this morning in a supermarket at 11 and thought about the many people who'd suffered, many who had no choice or probably didn't fully understand why they were asked to do what they did. I do not understand how anyone can't summon up even a shred of empathy or sadness when confronted with these realities. But every year I have a problem. I grew up on the Falls Road in Belfast during the height of the Troubles. I hated the place. I hated the sectarianism and hatred that seeped through society. I was so glad to leave it behind 25 years ago and make a new and better life elsewhere. But we are all products of our experience and there are things I can't forget. Like the time I was deliberately slammed off my bike by an army jeep, dislocating my shoulder, for having the audacity to be cycling home. Or the countless occasions when I was called a Fenian bastard or fucker or cunt when I was stopped by a foot patrol to be questioned about my movements. Or every time I see my friend Eamon, a harmless lad who like me had no time for the IRA or any of that shit, who was set upon one night on his way home from a pub by four soldiers who beat him almost to death, hitting him with the butts of their rifles, kicking his head in with their army boots, leaving him brain-damaged. No prosecution ever. So every year I have a problem buying a poppy, because it might support them. We should respect those who've suffered, but please don't feel that not buying a poppy is always disrespectful. Life's never simple.

financialwizard Sun 11-Nov-12 13:11:39

Before I get shot down, I do wear a Poppy. I do go to Remembrance. My family is military, my father was a military man, his father, my mothers father.

If the OP is ex-military then I retract my statement that her attitude doesn't surprise me. It does now.

I hope you never lose anyone you love the way that I have OP, I really do.

financialwizard Sun 11-Nov-12 13:08:23

You know, OP, your attitude does not surprise me.

All I ask is that you look up why many people wear their poppies with pride.

Everyone has a right to choose which charity to support.

ladymariner Sun 11-Nov-12 12:44:16

I wear my poppy with pride to show respect for our Armed Forces past and present, and the sacrifices they have made to allow us the freedom we have today.
Whatever your views are about war in general the poppy is there to show respect, not to glorify it or push your views.

Op, your post has made me sick. You disgust me.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 11-Nov-12 12:25:46

I've only just clocked the OP's post saying she's ex-forces. I don't believe it either. Or if it is true,she got booted out and has an axe to grind. Or maybe she is just a bitter woman with an ex in the forces.

Rememberance Day isn't about how much you like the Army,Navy or RAF.

My Grandfather was in the Army for 40 years. They treated him fucking terribly in the end. Really badly. I don't think he ever really got over it. But that sadness never got in the way of respecting and commemorating his fellow servicemen on Rememberance Day.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Sun 11-Nov-12 12:16:44

There's no way the OP is ex-forces. But if she is, it makes her position even harder to understand.

WeatherWitch Sun 11-Nov-12 12:12:44

OP - if you were a soldier, then I'm slightly surprised that you choose not to remember those that you served with and have fallen, because in 8 years of service it is pretty unlikely that nobody you joined up with or served with hasn't been killed or injured. Regardless of your views on war, surely they deserve two minutes of your time to pause and reflect that you walked away and they didn't?

ConferencePear Sun 11-Nov-12 11:43:19

I will try to explain why wear my poppy.
I have researched my family history and in every generation right back to the Crimean War there are soldiers. Today, during the two-minute silence, I thought particularly about my mother's cousin and his wife. During the Second World War he somehow found himself quite badly injured in a hospital run by Belgian nuns. He pretended to be mute in order not to reveal he was British. Meanwhile, back in England, his wife had been told he was dead and was adjusting to life as a widow. They had a difficult time readjusting to reality when the war ended. Not a tale of heroism or glory just the way quite ordinary men and women were affected.
I don't think of the glory of war, or who won or lost, I just think of the many thousands of ordinary people who were caught up in it on all sides.
I wear my poppy because of the pity of it all.

Alisvolatpropiis Sun 11-Nov-12 11:35:54

honeytea thing is sometimes "your own decisions" and indeed,opinions can make one look a bit of a fool on occasion. Such as now.

Poppies are commemorating those who fought for their country not a statement of how fabulous war was. Surely if everyone thought wars were great,there would be no need to commemorate and pay respect to these men and women because it would have been no big deal that they had fought in a war.

honeytea Sun 11-Nov-12 10:41:14

It's about Men and Women that serve their country with no question

It is the no question that worries me, if a child hits another child and said "I did it because bob told me to" the parent/teacher would say "you make your own decisions, don't just do what other people tell you to do" or as my mother would say "if bob told you to jump of a cliff would you?"

MyUmbrageIsSafeInMyKnickers Sun 11-Nov-12 02:57:49

Managed the link.

It's still relevant.

The Poppy is not about Politics. It's about Men and Women that serve their country with no question.

MyUmbrageIsSafeInMyKnickers Sun 11-Nov-12 02:21:25
MyUmbrageIsSafeInMyKnickers Sun 11-Nov-12 02:18:13

You have to paste that link above. I think it's relevant to all. I'm not brilliant at computers

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