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to think capping benefits at 2 children is a good idea

(1000 Posts)
moogstera1 Thu 25-Oct-12 13:44:36

Child-related benefits may be 'capped' at two children"
*Iain Duncan Smith said the current system, where families get more benefits the more children they have, was among changes being considered.

Families on benefits were often "freed from" the decision of whether they could afford more children, Mr Duncan Smith said, and must "cut their cloth".*

yes yes, before I get jumped on, if both your arms fall off and a previously hard working wage earner is jobless, there should be ( and I imagine would be)a safety net for those who then need benefits and have more than 2 chidren; but, in principle, I agree that working families seem to have to make much more difficult decisions regarding how many children they have than long term non working do, and it's mostly about finance.
The suggestion is that this would not be happening till 2015 and then only to new claimants so no comments about which children should be sacrificed, please.
The idea seems to be to only factor in 2 children wrt tax credits, child benefit

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 18:58:03

"And, of course we like having nice stuff . Don't you?"

Not enough time to spend my life doing something I clearly resent. You sound like you're quite angry about all the hours you've spent at work. I think that's sad.

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 18:58:11

*If you choose to spend your life at work so you can spunk loads of money on stuff/send your children to private schools/whatever, it's not really cool to make it sound like you're doing it because you have to. You're doing it because you like the lifestyle it gives you. Fair enough. Each to their own. But if it's really that bad and that much of a sacrifice, maybe do less of it?

That really says a lot...*

Doesn't it just! Sums up the whole entitlement, lazyarse mentality of your average scrounger beautifully! grin

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 19:00:58

I adore my job shagmund.

I'm merely angry at paying 40/45% of what we earn to those who wouldn't know what hard work was if it jumped up ad hit them on the arse.

I think some of you seriously underestimate just how thoroughly pissed off many, many decent, hard working people are with the current system.

Which is one reason why Labour were kicked out.

LittleChickpea Wed 13-Mar-13 19:02:43

Nice yup! But then the people working hard, long hours are attacked for it. Yup attack the people paying the high taxes which go into he benefits system. Mmmmmm grin

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 19:04:00

"Doesn't it just! Sums up the whole entitlement, lazyarse mentality of your average scrounger beautifully!"

I work and as a family we claim nothing at all. In fact we're higher rate tax payers.

Do you employ people Nice?

morethanpotatoprints Wed 13-Mar-13 19:04:16

Nicecuppachar

I don't think anybody here is sponging off you, but if you leave your address I'm sure somebody will contact you.
What are you on about? How can people sponge of you? grin
The gov will spend the tax you pay on what they like and it ceases to become your money. I hope your job doesn't need common sense or brains, lol.
No I can't say we work for nice stuff, I am not materialistic in the slightest and don't need stuff to make me happy. My family and a modest lifestyle is enough for me. Watching my dc grow up has been sufficient for me thanks.

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 19:04:32

You gotta laugh 8littlechickpea*, you gotta laugh!

Another thought, all this bleating about bedroom tax. What about homeowners who have to pay thousands every time they move house in Stamp Duty?

FasterStronger Wed 13-Mar-13 19:04:52

oh but some posters cannot accept that its the top earners that support fund the welfare state..... that would make it harder to vilify them grin

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 19:05:56

"But then the people working hard, long hours are attacked for it"

No - I have no problem with people choosing to work long hours because they like having more money than everyone else.

I just have a problem with those people whining about how hard they work.

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 19:06:26

Nice - do you employ anyone?

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 19:07:26

If you do, do any of your full time staff need to claim benefits in order to keep a roof over their heads and feed their family?

LittleChickpea Wed 13-Mar-13 19:10:33

I know it's a joke... Why don't we all stop working long hours, get paid less and then we can all claim... Wonder where the money will come from to pay our benefits and top ups..... confused

Ohhh don't get me going with th Stamp Duty, Corpration tax and on and on and on.........

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 19:11:11

Yes, over 300 people between us and no.

FasterStronger Wed 13-Mar-13 19:11:39

when we moved we paid over 30k in stamp duty on one transaction. my accountant offered us a scheme to reduce it to a few k.

we said no thanks that's a loop hole that should be closed (& it has subsequently been closed)

& some people (& I don't mean vastly undervalued carers or disabled people) take take take take and contribute little.

oh I hope their cash machine days are over!

morethanpotatoprints Wed 13-Mar-13 19:12:14

I must admit that really pisses me off too.
So you choose to work long hours in a job you enjoy to pay for nice things. That's your choice and right.
Other people work to live there's a huge difference.
Did any of you really rich people go without your cb before it was means tested?
I think that's worse actually, taking benefit when you don't need it.
Stop moaning about how many hours you work and sacrifices you make, its so boring grin

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 19:13:13

I'm sorry for you Nice.

It sounds like you feel really hard done by. <looks sympathetic>

Bitter even.

DH and I are also higher rate tax payers and we both like our work. We feel incredibly lucky, and sorry for people who are living on a subsistence income on benefits. I think it's a shit life.

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 19:15:44

shagmund your attitude that people who work long hours and pay in huge sums into the welfare state so that others can live off us , are idiots, stinks to high heaven.

And it's why this Govt. WILL tackle it.

LittleChickpea Wed 13-Mar-13 19:16:42

Double hats off to you Nice and Faster

We moved in December and got hit by the Stamp Duty..... Its a bloody nightmare.....

morethanpotatoprints Wed 13-Mar-13 19:17:03

FasterStronger.

So what do you want to happen to the people who you describe above?
Left to die, workhouse, lose their children.
Most people don't earn £30k let alone pay it in tax. Are we supposed to be in awe that you paid it and refused the loophole.
Do you have any idea how most people actually live? I doubt it very much.
You don't sound a nice person and if this is what a lot of money does to a person, I don't want it.

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 19:18:34

shagmund do you actually bother to read?

I LOVE my job and I have a fab lifestyle. I am not bitter just glad that the gravy train is stopping.

And you sound like an entitled scrounger.

Vev Wed 13-Mar-13 19:19:59

Oh 300 employees, nice. Do they all have full time hours (obviously if they want to work full time), and do you remunerate them well, or are they on minimum wage?

LittleChickpea Wed 13-Mar-13 19:20:23

Tell you what.. Roll on April 51 to 45.....

lougle Wed 13-Mar-13 19:23:39

I'd just like to clarify:

I am (was) a Registered Nurse. I had 3 children. The eldest was 'flagged' as a concern when I was 11 weeks pregnant. Her CT scan was clear when I was 13 weeks pregnant. The MRI scan she had when I was 38 weeks pregnant with DD3 gave us her official diagnosis. Just in case people say 'I should have planned better'.

I couldn't return to nursing due to DD1's situation. Then, because I hadn't done my 450 hours in 3 years, I lost my registration.

I tried to do a Return to Practice course this year. Should have started in January. It costs £1000, funded by me. I secured a place on a course and a practice placement - not easy in these times where staff have been cut so much that they barely have time to look after their patients let alone supervise returning nurses.

However, the rules say that part of the course is that you are prepared to work any and all shifts in the rotation during your (unpaid) placement. That's nights, weekends, earlies and lates.

DD1 gets transport provided because she goes to school 9 miles away. It's a special school. Transport rules state that she can only be picked up and dropped off at our home address. I tried to find a child minder who could a) cope with DD1 as well as DD2 and DD3 b) was willing to pick DD1 up from outside our house and take her back to their house. Not possible. Added to that, all childminders in our area start at 8am. Early shifts would mean a 6.30 drop off. No doing.

I had to abandon the course. That's the price of having a child with SN. Freedoms curtailed, simplicities complicated.

Oh, and talking of work ethic. My DH was offered an extra 2.5 hours per week at his work. He's taken it despite the fact that when all of our benefits are adjusted, he's working those 2.5 hours per week for £1.33 per hour.

Nicecuppachar Wed 13-Mar-13 19:24:04

You most certainly do want it, morethan you want to keep taking it form those who work fecking hard to give to those who don't. That is exactly what this discussion is about! grin

Shagmundfreud Wed 13-Mar-13 19:24:08

Nice - you sound bitter and angry about the time you've spent at work.

I feel sorry for you.

But I am VERY impressed that none of your staff claim benefits.

It's brilliant that there are some employers out there paying a proper living wage and not, like about 90% of businesses in the UK, expecting the tax payer to subsidise their wage bill so their staff can afford to eat and keep a roof over their heads.

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