My friend's ds has autism, she would like my ds to spend more time with him.

(510 Posts)
BatwingGirl Tue 16-Oct-12 11:44:29

I find this very unfair on ds (6) as he has made other friends at his school who want to come round and play. Both boys have pretty much grown up together, seeing eachother since they were babies. They go to different schools but as her ds has become older, it's become more challenging to have a decent playdate without tantrums every 2 minutes. I've tried to see my friend more while the boys are at school, but she tries very hard to time it for after school so that the boys can be together. I didn't want to say it to her and have said I'm busy after school, weekends I've stopped going out with her and the two boys as there will always be a scene in town. She ends up leaving him with me, walking off in a temper herself. It's very stressful.

For the last few weeks she has been coming round with some excuse (to see the kitten, to see the new rug, they made biscuits) and I can't exactly say no. She asks my ds to play with her ds (7) in his room. I don't like them being out of my sight as I know her ds can get very aggressive if he doesn't get his own way. My ds who does not know about his condition ends up very frustrated and scared. I'd like to keep my friend but not force my son to have to be his friend if he doesn't want to. I know if I say it to her she will really take offense. She feels like she has no one else and other mums from the school have dumped her since his diagnoses.
I just want an easier life. When Ds's other friends are round, they are like angels compared to my friend's ds.

I'm not prejudiced against people who are well educated (Oxbridge, and more than one postgrad qualification myself) but I have to agree with zzzzzz really.

OK the well educated people I know aren't chucking bricks at disabled kids (I do know a child that happened to angry ), but they can be pretty poisonous and non-inclusive when they want to be. The last person to tell ds1 to fuck off was driving a very smart car, and looked as if he was a supposed pillar of society.

IME attitudes towards disability are rather separate than class and education. I've found that the people who have a good attitude towards people with learning disabilities at least, tend to be pretty laid back, flexible sorts. I haven't really noticed a class or education division.

zzzzz Mon 22-Oct-12 20:23:58

In my experience, the same unpleasantness runs through society at every income and educational level. How it manifests is slightly different.

Sometimes I find overt prejudice easier to deal with, sometimes not.

AmberLeaf Mon 22-Oct-12 19:37:09

No one said anything like that Karlos.

You are sounding rather prejudice yourself actually.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 22-Oct-12 19:22:40

I realise it's heresy to suggest that well-educated people of above-average means can be anything other than the purest scum, but the facs remains that where I have encountered, for example, blatant racism, homophobia, sexism or explicit unpleasantness about disability, it has not gone hand in hand with a university education.
This is not the same thing as saying everyone who has such an education obeys the social rules I refer to above, but generally, they do. And this makes life pleasanter in some very important ways.

perceptionreality Mon 22-Oct-12 19:03:53

It has to do with emotional intelligence rather than being generally well educated imo.

Actually, this thread has dredged up some unpleasant memories about my well educated, but evidently not-very-nice family. Several years ago at a family function there was a boy of about 16 who had AS - I had never met him before. He seemed lovely. My cousin kept saying to him 'I don't want you in my garage / in this room / in that room', evidently based only on the fact that he obviously wasn't NT - it was not nice to witness.

He seemed to take a shine to me and kept coming and sitting next to me, which I didn't mind at all, but his mum looked terrified of my reaction and I thought this was sad and showed that people had responded unpleasantly to him before. sad

Ironically, my aforementioned cousin now has a child with ASD himself...

I have to say I know some well educated parents behaving pretty appallingly wrt to SN atm.

socharlotte Mon 22-Oct-12 17:41:29

How do you select a school where parents are 'well-educated'?
You can choose a school with a more affluent intake that's for sure, but if you think this demographic is going to have a more inclusive outlook, then IME you couldn't be more wrong.

AmberLeaf Mon 22-Oct-12 17:19:59

Id rather be around people who are openly foul that I can then avoid, than be around those that pretend to be 'nice' but hate me inside!

Less well educated people are not automatically racist/homophobic/disabalist.

pigletmania Mon 22-Oct-12 17:10:55

Neuro typical

Pourquoimoi Mon 22-Oct-12 17:06:29

Sorry, what does nt stand for? I gather it is children or schools that are 'mainstream' but don't know the meaning. Thanks

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 22-Oct-12 17:03:48

People who have received a certain quality of education, even if they don't know about ASD, know enough to know that there's things in polite society that you no longer do or say. Broadly, you're not openly racist, you're not openly homophobic, and you're not openly foul about those with disabilities.
none of this excludes the possibility that they're riddled with bigotry inside, of course. But it alters their public behaviour. And the latter is all I need to care about. The former is their problem.

AmberLeaf Mon 22-Oct-12 16:56:31

Great post Pagwatch.

KarlosK
I couldn't disagree more with your last post amd the suggestion that a person being 'well educated' excludes them from being prejudice is ridiculous.

perceptionreality Mon 22-Oct-12 13:08:27

Really ThreeSocks? That is terrible. I think we are lucky - I have never come across anyone I know who treats my dd badly. Even at school when she was in MS as part of her ABA programme, all the children seemed to love her according to her ABA tutors.

The only thing we do get is people staring at her unusual behaviour which I do find annoying at times.

perceptionreality Mon 22-Oct-12 13:03:15

YOS - my post does not in any way indicate that I cast judgement on anyone who chooses to terminate a pregnancy whatever the reason and I certainly did not mean to upset anyone who has. Why have you interpreted my post that way?

It is, however my opinion that the authorities do not always present a balanced view of what it could be like to raise a child with DS, and that information seems biased towards encouraging people to terminate, generally. That is not the same as saying saying that anyone who does choose to terminate a pregnancy is wrong and is in no way my point of view.

I'm not trying to alienate anyone or win anyone over. I'm stating my point of view. There is obviously a good reason why it's still apparently socially acceptable to discriminate against disabled people, since the attitude shown here a number of times looks a bit like 'why should my child go near a disabled monster?'

threesocksonathreeleggedwitch Mon 22-Oct-12 12:20:12

perceptionreality it will never happen to them....that is what they think, and haven't we all been there....
it wasn't supposed to happen to me, it did and if I could take away all the shit caused by other people, including professionals
my life would be easier.
most children I have met have been lovely to dd, ds's mates especially (well he would be mates with anyone who wasn't) but we did have 5 years of being targeted by the local thugs.

YouOldSlag Mon 22-Oct-12 12:02:32

But then, I suppose it's not surprising people have such prejudiced attitudes about disability when the NHS encourages people to abort babies with DS. And I am sure that if they could find a way to detect ASD they would encourage people to abort babies who have that as well.

I think that's harsh. A lot of people terminate for very serious or life limiting medical reasons, myself included, and it was by no means due to any prejudice against disabled children. Also, people are not "encouraged" to terminate because of Downs Syndrome. They are offered information either way. In my case, I wouldn't have terminated because of that.

Careful not to alienate people who may otherwise agree with you on other points.

zzzzz Mon 22-Oct-12 11:45:42

There are 770,00 disabled children under the age of 16 in the UK. That equates to 1 child in 20.

If you aren't playing with disabled kids, I would say with these numbers it's highly unlikely that you are making any effort to be inclusive at all.

Many of you will go on to have children born to your family who are disabled, and some of you will find your children become disabled.

Please think about it.

perceptionreality Mon 22-Oct-12 10:57:52

I wonder what will happen to some of the posters on here if any of their NT 'angels' go on to have a child with a disability?

In that situation your child would need your support and you will have to reassess your attitudes...

But then, I suppose it's not surprising people have such prejudiced attitudes about disability when the NHS encourages people to abort babies with DS. And I am sure that if they could find a way to detect ASD they would encourage people to abort babies who have that as well. sad

Vagaceratops Mon 22-Oct-12 10:55:04

I dont know if its just about being well educated. My DS is in mainstream in what many would class as a 'rough' area, however the parents are much more aware of SN, and have more experience of them. This makes them much more tolerant and the school work hard at inclusion.

KarlosKKrinkelbeim Mon 22-Oct-12 10:40:18

Like many parents of kids with ASD I trembled for my DS at the thought of sending him to school with NT kids, although I knew he was clearly suitable for mainstream. DH and I scoured the options for a place that had the right ethos, and I think we've been lucky in the place that we've found. the parents are generally drawn from that part of society which is well-educated enough not to come out with some of the shit that's on this thread and I'm sorry if it sounds snobbish but that makes a difference. I really shudder to think how ds would fare with the offspring of some of the people posting here.

merlincat Mon 22-Oct-12 10:33:40

And I love the word 'tolerance' in this context. My Dd1 is drop-dead gorgeous, has a string of As at GCSE is a gifted pianist and has AS. She has never hurt anyone and never would. You'd tolerate her would you? You should be so bloody lucky.

Bonsoir Mon 22-Oct-12 10:21:57

OP - this is very difficult and you have my sympathies.

I have a close friend who has a child with SEN. Her child is slightly younger than my DD and she has another child who is two years older than her child with SEN.

We do organise quite a lot of activities for all the children together - whole family activities, mostly. It doesn't work for my DD to spend long periods of time alone with her child, but it can work when we are all together.

FangsGoForTheMaidensThroat Mon 22-Oct-12 10:17:27

hear hear Karlos

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Mon 22-Oct-12 10:14:15

Some posts on here are horrible. It's the self serving pretence that gets me. All (... many/ the ones I know, the one i have a story about...) disabled children are scary & violent & nt children are quivering with fear? Oh dear, we do need to lock up disabled children forever as they are sub human & scary sad really?

I find it interesting that people assume that the posters with dc with ASD don't have nt children as well.
saintly I had a similar experience with a 'trained' TA, her method was to shout at dd to the point that she would walk in to school shaking with fear, we moved her too.

As others have pointed out , children with ASD are far more likely to be bullied than be bullies. My dd spends her whole life trying to please and badly attempt to fit in.

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