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AIBU to expect my staff to work overtime or more than just 9-5(372 Posts)
I manage a large team of 20 staff and I have two members of my team who refuse to do anything beyond the core hours in their contract. In at a set time, out the door right on the dot like clockwork.
If these staff members were junior I wouldn't expect more of them but they are both on a managerial salary of £41-£44k per year --I think at this level there is a general expectation that you're generally more engaged and committed and that you'll work at home or stay late when needed. I also feel times have changed and in these dicey financial times people are giving more to their jobs than ever. In a perfect world no one would have extra work or overtime, but that's just not the way things are in 2012!
One of the staff members is a mom to 2 kids and she says it is impossible for her to stay late (due to childcare commitments) or to do work on weekends (she's too busy with the kids); the other is a single guy who has no appetite to do more than he's contracted to do.
I find this situation very irksome, especially because I have two kids but do a lot of late nights and work from home, which I think is expected at my level.
DP thinks I need to stop imposing my protestant work ethic on everyone I work with, but I feel these staff members aren't pulling their weight. I'm not a slavedriver but I expect more. Are I reasonable or are my views skewed? I would really welcome the opinion of others.
If you expect them to work extra hours without additional payment without any notice, are you happy for them to come in a couple of hours late or leave early without any notice when there isn't much work on?
YABU given the way you have presented it - which is all about why they should work extra because there aren't many jobs out there. I work plenty outside my contracted hours, but it is my goodwill I am giving, and I expect my employer to show me goodwill in return, which they do. Equally, I work quickly and accurately, and get irritated by being judged a slacker by people who get less done in a longer time and are therefore still at their desk when I leave.
Apologies if repeating - haven't read whole thread <lazy and tired>
Do they work for a salary or by the hour? Salary = get job done in whatever time it takes, whether its longer or less hours. It's the job you do not the hours eg teaching. Hours = work to a set number of hours/time limit. What did you employ them on and does their contract say so?
ha ha ha ha ha - where I am (in the normal world) £40 is a lot to be earning and would be a more senior position.
Unless you are going to pay them extra, don't expect them to do extra.
YABU. You want more hours out of them, then pay them more. They are working the hours that you pay them for.
I detest the idea that people should work extra hours and be bloody grateful for it. As someone above said, if the work consistently cannot be done within their hours then the need extra staff, a rethink of their workloads or more money.
Are they not getting their work done?
Or would you be happy if they went on Facebook for an hour, as long as they are seen to be staying later?
Who looks after your DC when you work late?
You are of course completely U. But you knew that when you started the thread.
Yalu. Some people work to live, not live to work. If you want them to work more hours, then pay for them. I actually get paid overtime but still hate doing it as I have many other things to do with my time.
This situation is a microcosm of many of our society's problems. Overwork & exploitation leads to stress which can lead to poor mental and physical health, drinking, smoking, eating badly, sleeping badly, to mention but a few of the lovely effects...of course none of this benefits the employer either, looking at it purely from their perspective as it also makes the employee vastly less efficient. Even if they sacked that person and got someone else, the same would happen to them, and the cycle continues.
Definitely about productivity. I have found since I have tighter time restrictions, I am much more efficient and productive. But from the outside it probably looks like I work less!
What Dueling Fanjo said. 40k around here is most definitely senior!
How do they do during the time they are there? Are they actually better at getting the job done during 9-5, and do those who stay late get just as much work done but in a longer time period?
If I were you I'd stop worrying about when they're in the office, and more about what they actually do when they're there. Is there any way you can help them work a bit more flexibly?
I hate presenteeism, it is demotivating for employees and not always the best indicator of performance But, it's obviously a problem for you if they're not doing the job properly, and that is worth taking up with them.
Have some men not learnt yet that their wives are always right?
yabu, people have responsibilities outside of work, why should someone give up their already limited precious time with their children/partners/parents/friends/hobbies to appease your work obsession? Your business may be the most important thing in your life but it's obviously not in your employees, neither should it be. A job is merely a way to the bills, most people work to live, life outside work is more important.
Really heartened that the vast majority of the thread disagree with the OP. Sadly the OP's attitude seems more prevalent among business and government.
In my current role, we're expected to work overtime during end of tax year. However, insisting staff work 6am - 9pm every day just results in knackered, resentful staff.
Much better to send people home at a reasonable time and get them to be more productive during their working day.
One enlightened soul I worked with said that her salary was based on her knowledge and experience not the requirement to work double the amount of hours.
I'd also say that in offices where there has been a culture of clockwatching, it's been a result of a martinet manager insisting that everyone be at their desk no later than the official starting time and no one leaving before. Result: everyone took him absolutely at his word.
If I had been paid for all the extra hours I worked in my last job, I would have earned £15k more than I was actually paid. We were expected to work 8-6 on a 9-5.30 contract, which amounts to presenteeism. Our team leader worked 7 - 6 every day, every week, regardless of what projects we had in hand.
When I got a bonus of £1500 i.e. one-tenth of the value I had freely given, I stopped doing it. It didn't make any difference. The job got done, the bonus got paid.
I work for myself now.
YABU - get a life.
YABU. I'd say if they are getting their work done and meeting their targets it shouldn't be an issue.
I really detest the current attitude some companies/managers have at the mo that you should consider yourself lucky to be employed
and therefore be happy to be continually shafted. When things eventually improve with the economy, I wonder how many of these people who are being treated like crap will leave at the first available opportunity and find a company who actually value them.
Just because you have children OP it doesn't mean that all your staff with kids should follow your lead. Everyone is different and will have different priorities and different family issues, which you cant always be aware of.
I get what you're saying. If you're asking for an extra five minutes every now and again, YANBU, but every day, for more than a few minutes YABU.
Sorry OP but YABU! Your staff should be able to get the work done in the contracted hours and if they can't there is either not enough staff or they are having problems getting the work done and you need to find out why.
I very rarely outside my contracted hours some colleagues do but our manager does not expect it and tells people to stop looking at emails etc outside of work and enjoy life instead. If for any reason I do work extra hours I can take time of in lieu but I'd rather avoid it at all costs. I am never going to wish I worked more. You shouldn't expect people to do overtime as a routine activity.
where i used to work contracted hours for certain roles were 9-5 or such longer hours as business needs require. hence, there was no paid overtime on the basis of a fixed amount per hour (some possibility of a bonus at the end of the year though). I think most of the large law and accounting firms and similar have these types of provisions in contracts. Is that what your staffs' contracts say, or does it just say 9-5?
Even if it says "flexible working may be required" that does mean the employer must be flexible, not just the employee. It's not a catch-all to force people to work longer hours.
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