to think that sleep regression and the virgin gut are a recent phenomena

(105 Posts)
FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:02:09

they didn't exist when I had DS1 7 years ago and so I think they can't be true.

IceBergJam Sun 14-Oct-12 22:06:13

My DD woke every one to two hours for 9 months. She never slept enough to regress. She is a baby. Thats what some babies do.

slatternlymother Sun 14-Oct-12 21:51:54

I swaddled mine OP! He seemed to like it.

FunnysInLaJardin Sun 14-Oct-12 21:38:46

oh dear, I swaddled both mine, only 2 and 6 years ago. It was winter though with them both so no overheating. I am sooo of the moment, yet sooo behind.

And sleep regression is the same thing as a growth spurt. All babies have them.

pointyfangs Sun 14-Oct-12 18:13:20

No sleep regressions here, but anecdotally speaking both my DDs were bf (though not ebf to 6 months) and they seemed not to catch nearly as many vomiting bugs as their ff peers - one each to date and they're 9 and 11. And the ones they did catch they recovered from in 48 hours flat, whereas their peers were laid low for 4-6 days. I do think there's something in the protective effect.

However, I read somewhere that the crucial period is the first 6 weeks???

slatternlymother Sun 14-Oct-12 17:54:33

YABU. Sleep regression is real for those it happens to. It didn't happen to us, but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.

theodorakis Sun 14-Oct-12 17:49:00

I can't take virgin gut seriously however noble the sentiment. It just brings to mind earnest nct coffee mornings with little spaceman bubbles over babies heads in case they inhale the aroma of coffee

lljkk Sun 14-Oct-12 17:45:32

Swaddling was a life saver with some of mine <<Old Gimmer emoticon>>.
YABU, though, it's good to evolve our understanding of things.

Tailtwister Sun 14-Oct-12 17:37:54

I did say 'often' endo not always. I'm just saying that it's easier to dismiss something as a load of bollocks than face the possibility you might not have chosen the best route. Happens with lots of things, but especially with parenting as it's so important to us.

EndoplasmicReticulum Sun 14-Oct-12 17:32:02

Tail - I'm going to disprove your theory - I am not convinced by virgin gut theory and my second son wasn't weaned before 6 months. (First one was scuppered anyway by formula in special care).

I still haven't seen any scientific evidence for it, although I haven't looked recently to be honest. If anyone has any, please post a link.

Tailtwister Sun 14-Oct-12 17:26:35

I find that people choose to believe or not believe depending on what suits them. For example, often people who chose to wean before 6 months think the vg theory is bollocks. It validates their decision. People don't like to feel challenged by information which might suggest they didn't follow the optimum path.

Does it really matter in the great scheme of things? Probably not. In 5 years time I'm sure I'll be reading how I 'did it all wrong'!

SirBoobAlot Sun 14-Oct-12 17:14:37

Babies don't "need" food at 4-6 months, actually. They get the majority of calories from milk until around a year old.

EndoplasmicReticulum Sun 14-Oct-12 16:54:22

foreverondiet - how do you know what babies were fed 150 years ago? I'm sure they weren't all exclusively breastfed.

They may not have had formula, but what about food? Mush?

(goes off to Google)

Look - ancient bottles! www.babybottle-museum.co.uk/early.htm

foreverondiet Sun 14-Oct-12 16:43:47

re: virgin gut remember that for all off human evolution apart from maybe last 150 years or so babies would not have been fed anything but breast milk for first 4 months. So who are you to say its bollocks?

I mean 50 years ago people thought smoking was good for health.

Flimflammery Sun 14-Oct-12 16:23:32

Babies wake when they're hungry or cold or there is a noise that wakes them, or they are in pain with teething.

Actually brain research has shown that babies (in fact all humans) have natural sleep cycles consisting of different types of sleep with different brain waves. Babies naturally wake slightly about every 45 minutes in the daytime and 90 minutes or so at night. As long as they're not in some kind of discomfort, then what makes the difference to whether they go back to full sleep again rather than crying for mum is whether they've learnt to do it by themselves (or are co-sleeping so don't need to wake you).

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 16:09:43

There's no such thing as a breastfeeding type but there is a type of person that thinks they can reinvent the biology of maternity and child development.

Babies wake when they're hungry or cold or there is a noise that wakes them, or they are in pain with teething. No regression at all.

Babies guts are virgin until something other than a nipple passes their lips. As it should be until their guts are ready to cope with bacteria or alternative foods.

hmm

SamSmalaidh Sun 14-Oct-12 15:58:02

Funnily enough I can believe you are not a doctor hmm

Quadrangle Sun 14-Oct-12 15:56:37

Yes those breast feeding types are crazy aren't they, what with breadfeeding to 21 and dipping their nipples in boiling water to sterilise them. They all do that you know. Completely bonkers. wink

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 15:55:26

I didn't say 4 months, I said 4-6 months. See they twist my words, they twist my numbers!

Babies "need" food at around that age because their bodies are bigger and digest quicker. Their brains are growing fast and they need longer hours of unbroken sleep because that's when their brains grow and repair, at night. So feed them good calories and they are less likely to wake up and their brain will be bigger.

Would you believe I'm not even a doctor!

SamSmalaidh Sun 14-Oct-12 15:49:34

Babies "needing" food at 4 months is still a fairly new idea though achillea, and isn't even the current NHS/WHO guidance. The virgin gut theory is more about introducing unnecessary sugar water or formula into the gut of a newborn or very young baby though than introducing solid food at an appropriate point when an older baby is able to chew.

There's a 9 month sleep regression? <faints> We haven't recovered from the 4 month one and she's 7 months now!

beancurd Sun 14-Oct-12 15:18:49

Don't think many people have ever heard of the vg, can't impact on weaning...tiny percentage ebf at 6 months.

Just helps the developing immune system. I don't look at mine and remember who did and didn't have a vg.

DolomitesDonkey Sun 14-Oct-12 15:14:15

Yanbu, still I always like the crazies to identify themselves and I fear for the nutjobs who dip their nipples in boiling water to ensure they're sterile, I mean "Ouch"!?

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 14:57:18

It concerns me that people would try to somehow retain the virginity of their babies guts by avoiding weaning. That's the danger of these phrases. Unless the human body has suddenly altered, babies still need food from 4-6 months on, right?

beancurd Sun 14-Oct-12 14:03:41

Bf babies are much less likely to get gastro and uti probs. They recover more quickly too. This is partly because of what is often called the vg. The gut of an ebf baby is colonised with gram positive bifid bacteria...it creates an environment hostile to less friendly bacteria.

If you give ff or food but then ebf the bacteria build up again. Again this helps protect the infant gut and reduces their susceptibility to gastro probs.

Doesn't matter what it is called, it's just one of the mechanisms that gives a bf baby protection against unfriendly bacteria.

achillea Sun 14-Oct-12 13:43:12

But surely sleep regression is a term for a symptom - the cause is variable. It always existed, it's like separation anxiety. It is a symptom of poorly managed separation, the cause of which could be any number of things.

What bothers me is that some of these terms pass the buck from the parent to the child. Take self-weaning for instance. Means that the adult never needs to admit that they are in control of their childrens development.

I think that's why I term it as bollox. Ivor your late night wakings were caused by something, but not by sleep regression -you as a responsible adult found out what it was and dealt with it - even if the cause turned out to be 'getting used to being hungry at night, or needing a wee (you may never know) it's not a big deal, he'll get past it'.

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