to think that sleep regression and the virgin gut are a recent phenomena

(105 Posts)
FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:02:09

they didn't exist when I had DS1 7 years ago and so I think they can't be true.

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:37:20

but sleep regression always used to be called a growth spurt. You still knew they would get over it, but not that their sleep had regressed, which actually isn't true. Much rather have a spurt than a regression. It's just so negative

CoteDAzur Sat 13-Oct-12 22:38:02

" Now we know waking more often isn't a weaning sign it's been labelled as something else."

What is it, then? "Sleep regression" doesn't mean anything.

Sparklyboots Sat 13-Oct-12 22:41:54

As for Virgin gut- it may be true, but the minute you put formula in it it's not a virgin gut anymore, is it? So I think baby rice is a far less allergenic option once breastfeeding is no longer enough - sort of assuming there that bf is no longer enough at some point. Which you might assume if you've mistaken sleep regression for a bollocky label and are convinced it can be cured with the addition of food.

I did think all these new fangled ideas were evidence based? Would definitely need more than anecdotes to be convinced that human babies need more than bf before their spit-it-out reflex had disappeared. Just doesn't make evolutionary sense.

SirBoobAlot Sat 13-Oct-12 22:44:10

There is a lot of evidence about both. The sleep regressions especially - all you need to do is ask a group of mums who are saying their children have stopped sleeping properly, and you can guess they will be one of a few ages.

Dismissing knowing better now as bollocks is a ridiculous attitude.

FunnysInLaJardin Sat 13-Oct-12 22:49:34

childrens sleep may change but it's not regression I don't think, more like growth spurts. To say a child has regressed in their sleeping patterns is worse than saying they sleep less because their minds are more active. I'm very glad I hadn't heard of regression with my two. Far more worrying I would have thought.

TwickOrTweasels Sat 13-Oct-12 22:51:26

Sirboobalot, was the 4 month sleep regression a known developmental issue before weaning advice changed to 6 months?

I don't necessarily believe that sleep habits changing are connected to weaning/not weaning. I just don't know the facts so genuine question.

HoneyDragon Sat 13-Oct-12 22:54:39

I don't like the term virgin gut. It's not a nice term for babies, who have shiny new tummies.

I like the term Exclusive Breast Feeding though. Makes my tits sound like A-List celebrities. grin

Sleep Regression, does make it seem more like a "this too shall pass" thing, which is probably good and a lot more reassuring for new parents.

Especially the new parents who really really hate the response "yeah, some babies just do that".

Viewofthehills Sat 13-Oct-12 23:04:46

Sparkly-I think you can get to a point where bf is not enough, yes.
DD1 and DS both slept through the night ( as in 10 pm- 6am say) by about 8 weeks and suddenly at about 14 weeks they woke up constantly. I had already weathered some pretty major growth spurts. Constant feeding for 3 days etc. And this was different. I had loads of milk, they spilled over. The most minute amount of baby rice settled them completely. And they absolutely did not spit the food out, because otherwise I would not have persisted.

Aboutlastnight Sat 13-Oct-12 23:09:02

"Sparkly-I think you can get to a point where bf is not enough, yes."

shock

<points> heresy, heresy!

grin

Sparklyboots Sat 13-Oct-12 23:36:32

Definitely not convinced that your experience stacks up to an argument, against the evidence based advice, or basic observation that it just doesn't make evolutionary sense that babies would need special, sterilised and not-easily-available foodstuffs prepared for them until they were able to self feed.

HoneyDragon Sat 13-Oct-12 23:43:50

But you get Sleep Regression/growth Spurt at 9 months too commonly. After weaning. So it's not simply food.

Valdeeves Sat 13-Oct-12 23:44:22

Sir Boob - nothing to do with what you've said, just to mention your use of the word "coloured" - not done these days.

thunksheadontable Sun 14-Oct-12 00:24:56

My four month old has had his virgin gut ruined. I found my hair in his nappy.

SirBoobAlot Sun 14-Oct-12 00:55:36

Valdeeves, I'll be honest - that's what my friends of different ethnic backgrounds have said they preferred. I'm sorry if I've offended you, and happy to be corrected, just doing what I was told to.

Mummiesarescary Sun 14-Oct-12 01:41:38

Don't know about sleep regression as mine didn't sleep much for years.

Ds3 didnt tolerate formula as well as he did bm though. However I think that was more to do with him being 8 weeks early. Ds1 had no problem with formula from day 1 and was weened around 18 weeks, which was the norm 17 years ago.

Enfyshedd Sun 14-Oct-12 09:38:20

My experience with DD (21wks tomorrow).

At 17 weeks, I started weaning (one meal a day so far) after EBF (apart from a few top up bottles in the first 8 weeks). Within a couple of days, she went from waking once a night which she'd managed for 3 weeks, back to waking 3 times a night. Only this week has it dropped to twice again. In the past 4 weeks, DD has done the following things:

Started crawling freakishly early.
Cut her first 2 teeth.
Put on 14oz in 14 days between 17 & 19 wks.
Started a cold a few days ago.

Put all these things together, and I don't blame the poor mite for being unsettled at night.

Have to say, I've been a bit hmm at the weaning advice from the HVs - kept being told not to wean until 6mo as babies are less likely to develop allergies. I might have been PFB and followed this advice if it wasn't that as far as I can see most people my age (30) & over don't seem to have problems with allergies, but recently we've found out that my 17yo cousin has a severe nut allergy after somehow avoiding eating nuts almost his entire life. And I'm pretty sure the freakout over PG women eating nuts started just before my DA got pg.

Viewofthehills Sun 14-Oct-12 11:45:13

Enfy- I think you're right about the nut thing.
Just as i got pg with DD1 it appeared that all the nipple creams contained groundnut oil. ie peanuts
I think that was thought to be the cause in the end rather than than pg women actually eating them. Babies were actually getting allergenic nut proteins directly into their bodies long before weaning age.

CassandraApprentice Sun 14-Oct-12 12:24:29

My eldest is 7 and I heard about these.

I also heard a lot about how the guidelines had 'recently changed' about weaning waiting till 6 month. That is something I still hear now.

I do think down I have a few DC under my belt I's worry less about things. The sleep regression was I though just a phase - sometimes a long one usually due to growth spurts plus I know that all DC were different.

CassandraApprentice Sun 14-Oct-12 12:29:35

After first DC I was told next time to use nipple cream with laloin in to avoid the problems I had with first - which in hindsight were possible due to poor latch.

Second DC comes into contact with creames or oitments with laloin in flares his excema right up.

Softlysoftly Sun 14-Oct-12 12:36:57

As I am in the midst of the 4m regression with a High Needs baby I call authority!

She has gone from sleeping 5hrs in bits at night and 1 in the day to 2 hrs at night and 2 x 10 minutes in the day.

My labels make me feel that it's short term and that she isn't broken, there's nothing I can fix, I have been through 4 months of fricking trauma to work out those labels, I'm sleep deprived, desperate and in a state of shock after non high needs perfectly sleeping DD1 so back the fuck away from my labels.

<<goes to weep in a corner>>

Ps virgin gut doesn't bother me therefore I will allow you to label it bollocks grin

LeeCoakley Sun 14-Oct-12 12:38:20

The trouble with new-fangled terms like virgin gut is that it creates elements of competitive parenting. On MN there have been wailings about MiLs letting grandchildren lick the carpet thus 'ruining' PFB's virgin gut. How can one then go to an NCT coffee morning with one's head held high? Maybe the more virgin the gut the more healthy it is, but don't let it rule your every waking moment.

FunnysInLaJardin Sun 14-Oct-12 12:44:32

there there Softly <pats arm> you keep your labels, I see you need them

<backs away cautiously>

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 14-Oct-12 12:48:25

The problem with most parenting advice/ philosophies is that it's based on flaky or no evidence- it's an "apparent truth" thing like it sounds like it should be right.

e.g claims that BLW kids are less fussy eaters. There is no proof beyond anecdote that this is the case, but no-one can actually be arsed to do the research that would prove it one way or the other, because to get a meaningful conclusion about whether it has benefits, you'd have to follow the 2 groups for 18 years- i.e. to see if BLW makes a difference to your eating habits as an adult. You'd have to do a study of probably 2000 people, and adjust the results for demographic and social factors. Why bother when people will buy the book anyway?

Ditto all this 4th trimester stuff. Swaddling was "the thing" a few yrs ago- now it's "not recommended" as may be linked to cot death. Bet the Baby Whisperer is gutted.

LeeCoakley Sun 14-Oct-12 12:52:15

That's interesting. Yesterday I was talking to a pregnant friend and apparently swaddling is all the rage!

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Sun 14-Oct-12 13:02:12

Oh really? I read a thread on here recently saying that a lot of UK MWs/HVs are now saying don't do it, because of the risk of overheating. I don't live in the UK so can't comment from personal experience- I had my second baby in Asia recently and swaddling is still the done thing here but we are a bit behind in the colonies grin

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