To think that if we charged for schooling here

(146 Posts)
kim147 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:04:11

Children's attitudes towards education would be a whole lot better.
It's not going to happen but I have had a really shit day with a bunch of children who really do not behave and totally screw up the education of those children who want to learn.

The shooting of the teenage activist by the Taliban has really upset me. She values education and almost gave her life for it. I have been to countries where children walk miles to get to school. Those whose parents sacrifice loads to get their child to school because they value education.

Yet over here, we have children who quite frankly don't care. I know they have issues at home which they bring to school. But all they do is affect those children who want to learn.

I know the advantages of free education. That is so important. But at what price does free education come?

Sirzy Wed 10-Oct-12 23:07:19

If people had to pay then all it would mean is that a lot of people would miss out on any education. I'm not sure that would do much to improve things on a grander scale.

Schools need to work to plan lessons which will interest and engage all pupils and work to help them achieve their potential. Sometimes I think it's to easy to write children off as trouble makers without looking beyond that

AgentZigzag Wed 10-Oct-12 23:07:54

If we had to pay for schooling in this country mine wouldn't be going.

They owe me enough already.

kim147 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:10:17

"Schools need to work to plan lessons which will interest and engage all pupils and work to help them achieve their potential"

Of course - silly me. Must have been my fault that year 6 lad kept shouting out and started kicking and punching the y6 girl sad Whilst the other boy threw his drawer on the floor and stormed out.

CailinDana Wed 10-Oct-12 23:10:21

I had days like that as a teacher too. It's so fucking demoralising. But here in the UK we have children who battle against odds for their education and do value it, and there are children in every country in the world who couldn't give a shit. Charging children would just mean the ones whose parents don't care would lose out that bit more. I know you know that, and I know the feeling of standing there in front of a class wanting to somehow make them see what an opportunity they're wasting. Tomorrow is another day in the battlefield. Good luck.

kim147 Wed 10-Oct-12 23:12:42

Put it this way - there are a hell of a lot of children in my school with a hell of a lot of patience. Because of the sheer hell they have to put up with daily from some other children with real issues.

It feels like a real battlefield and when you hear about a child being shot because she wants to go to school, it does make you really angry at those children who do not give a shit.

CailinDana Wed 10-Oct-12 23:14:47

I know Kim, but they just don't realise. They're children. More often than not it's their parents who are to blame. Parents who tell them school is a waste of time and they don't need to bother doing their homework, or parents who just flat out abuse and neglect their children so that by the time to get to school their so strung out and angry there's no reaching them. Children like that exist in every corner of the world unfortunately.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Wed 10-Oct-12 23:16:18

YANBU to think that the attitudes of the children you had to teach it would be better, you would be right, because so many children simply wouldn't attend school.

WorraLiberty Wed 10-Oct-12 23:25:54

I'm not sure really.

Some kids at expensive private schools are very badly behaved and have no concept of the privileged life they lead...or how hard their parents have to work to be able to afford to send them there.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Oct-12 23:37:56

They have 'issues'

They don't care

Which is it?

I was surprised that you were talking about year 6 pupils tbh, I thought you were going to say year 8-9 or something like that.

I don't think you can blame a 10-11 year old child if they have reached year 6 and they are not being helped/supported.

Oh and re paying for school, that would be my three out, they are all bright and doing well, except maybe the one who is autistic and has 'issues' that disrupt the learning of others because he isn't supported at school adequately.

But yeah, whatever...blame the children.

I get that you are ranting and probably having a bad day week but I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

ouryve Wed 10-Oct-12 23:39:19

We pay taxes to pay for schooling.

If we charged for schooling at source, though, there's many, many people who would miss out.

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 23:42:55

It's an odd route from "children disrupt lessons badly" to "let's make everyone pay".

There are many stops on the way: the first should be "improve the rights of teachers to discipline" or perhaps "remove disruptive children from classroom full of pupils working hard" accompanied by "intervene at these children's homes to start dealing with the problems.

CouthyMowWearingOrange Wed 10-Oct-12 23:46:08

What about 'provide the help that DC's with SN's need to follow the curriculum'?

Because a child that is not grasping the work in class is far more likely to be disruptive.

AThingInYourLife Wed 10-Oct-12 23:47:05

Free education is really important.

I think the right of children to an education is often taken away from them by the insistence of privileging the rights of other children who make it impossible for them to learn.

If 30 children in a class have a right to an education, no one of those children should be allowed to significantly disrupt the learning of the others.

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 23:49:03

Thing; of course you are right.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Oct-12 23:49:20

the insistence of privileging the rights of other children who make it impossible for them to learn

Excuse me while I roll around laughing......

Privilege you say?

Yeah right.

AmberLeaf Wed 10-Oct-12 23:51:18

If 30 children in a class have a right to an education, no one of those children should be allowed to significantly disrupt the learning of the others

If 30 children in a class have a right to an education, no one of those children should be so bloody awfully let down and unsupported

5ThingsUnderTheBed Wed 10-Oct-12 23:53:40

I lived in soth Africa during the apartheid time. No black families were allowed education in white towns, most could not afford it due to not being allowed decent jobs.

I can remember our principal leaving th day black children were allowed into our school.

Strangely enough, the Afrikaans classes did not take them in, it was the British/English class they went into. But that is a completely different topic.

5ThingsUnderTheBed Wed 10-Oct-12 23:54:39

*south

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 23:55:00

They are though, Amber. No point wringing hands. You have to do something. Step A: stop child disrupting 29 others. Step B: do something.

WorraLiberty Wed 10-Oct-12 23:56:09

What I'd like to see is earlier intervention when a class turns out to be disruptive.

Occasionally you will get a situation where there are a high number of disruptive kids and others who are easily led by them.

This happened last year in my DS's yr 8 class. The teacher struggled and even admitted to me on parent's evening that only my son and 5 or 6 others actually wanted to learn...and were often prevented by the chaos the others were causing.

Her solution was to eventually put all the kids who wanted to learn on one table and concentrate more on them...punishing the rest of the class with detentions when they played up.

I think that was crap and if the management team had intervened and put a much stricter teacher in that class who could actually cope...things might have been very different...especially for the kids who were easily led.

AThingInYourLife Wed 10-Oct-12 23:57:22

Yes, Amber, dangerous and disruptive children and teenagers are left in schools that cannot deal with them because their classmates are considered too poor and unimportant for it to matter that their education is being utterly bollocksed.

It matters that the pupils in question gets the support that they need, if indeed any level of support will help (and sometimes it won't).

But it also matters that the other pupils get to go to school and work without being constantly disrupted.

burmac Wed 10-Oct-12 23:57:43

I have a 14 yr old and she and I are both feeling very affected by the girl in Pakistan too. She feels very important doesn't she and I just hadn't heard of her before. She started speaking out and blogging so young

YABVU.

WorraLiberty Wed 10-Oct-12 23:59:10

I agree burmac she's a very brave little girl indeed and I just hope she gets to fulfil her dream and become a Doctor.

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