Note: Please bear in mind that whilst this topic does canvass opinions, it is not a fight club. You may disagree with other posters but we do ask you please to stick to our Talk Guidelines and to be civil. We don't allow personal attacks or troll-hunting. Do please report any. Thanks, MNHQ.

if you voted for the Tories, you should feel personally responsible when you see homeless people on the streets ...

(1000 Posts)
aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 13:39:27

...once their policies start to bite.

They want to removing housing benefit for under 25s, many of whom have children. Just one of their policies which will drive people into homelessness.

I thought this was meant to be a civilised country. If the safety net is removed, many people including children will fall through it, some of them ending up on the streets.

How can anyone support that?

Whitecherry Wed 10-Oct-12 13:41:51

Problem is, you can't take that vote back.... What's done is done.

DinosaurSchool Wed 10-Oct-12 13:42:35

Were there no homeless people under labour? confused

<I didn't vote Tory>

LadySybildeChocolate Wed 10-Oct-12 13:43:14

hmm That's a bit harsh. The Tories have gone back on their word. They didn't say that this is what they were planning, probably because they knew they wouldn't stand a chance of winning. Their voters are not responsible for this. Blame the government, not the voters.

aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 13:44:07

Of course there were homeless people before, but the numbers are rising now and it's going to get a whole lot worse, as a direct result of Tory policies.

aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 13:46:02

So are people who voted Tory last time planning on voting against them next time?

(Please give me hope here!)

Rooble Switzerland Wed 10-Oct-12 13:48:23

Will it be a blanket ban on HB for the under25's, or may there be mitigating circumstances in which it may not apply?
Because I did not vote Tory, have never voted Tory, but do think there are aspects of the benefits system that are out of control.
blush at my failure to read the newspaper.

InfestationofLannisters Wed 10-Oct-12 13:49:31

The Lib Dems have also gone back on their word at bit...

I do like the idea though OP, of the personal-responsibility brigade feeling responsible for ever-increasing poverty and destitution but I don't think they'll see it that way sad

aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 13:52:29

AFAIK what's proposed is a blanket ban. Here's an open letter to Cameron from many UK charities (published in the Times).

Sir,

The Prime Minister’s proposals to cut benefits for under-25s will have a disastrous impact on thousands of young adults, especially at a time of record youth unemployment.

Tens of thousands of young people simply don’t have stable family and friends to go back to if they lose their job or fall ill. Young mums and dads, people whose parents have downsized or those who have experienced family breakdown will be particularly affected.

You don’t root out any excesses in the system by abolishing an entire safety net for young people. They too pay into the state safety net when they are working in the belief that it will be there for them when they need it. Evidence shows that when young adults claim support, many will need it for less than six months before they get back on their feet and into work.

We welcome open debate about the challenge of giving young people a fair start and making work pay. But with these ill-conceived proposals, the Prime Minister has gone too far.

Yours,

Anne Marie Carrie, Chief Executive, Barnardo’s
Seyi Obakin, Chief Executive, Centrepoint
Matthew Reed, Chief Executive, The Children's Society
Leslie Morphy OBE, Chief Executive, Crisis
Jane Slowey, Chief Executive, The Foyer Federation
Fiona Weir, Chief Executive, Gingerbread
Matt Harrison, Interim Chief Executive, Homeless Link
Campbell Robb, Chief Executive, Shelter
Jean Templeton, Chief Executive, St Basils
Ian Green, Chief Executive, YMCA England

aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 13:57:03

Rooble there are massive changes happening with the introduction of Universal Credit.

I recommend these links to get you up to speed.

How Universal Credit wil destroy part-time work

Universal Credit, Self Employment and the Minimum Wage

George Osbourne True Agenda

Housing benefit cuts and homelessness

dreamingofsun Wed 10-Oct-12 13:59:15

I imagine there will still be some form of safety net - possibly in a shared house, or hostel? Maybe it won't be quite what they were hoping for, but they won't necessarily be on the street. I thought they were saying that they shouldn't expect to get a flat of their own. Students have shared for years - my son is currently doing that - there's no way we could afford to fund a whole flat for him.

Perhaps it will make the youngsters who have a child to get a flat think again. or those that are unable to support themselves, let alone a child. after all contraception is freely available in this country.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Wed 10-Oct-12 14:00:05

I voted Tory last time. I don't know if I will again, I'll decide at election time. I don't feel responsible for other people's under 25yos, I have enough to think about with my own.

Do those of you that voted for labour when they were in power feel responsible for all the Afghan children you killed?

No? Didn't think so.

aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 14:03:40

Imagine away dreamingofsun. There is no such safety net proposed, not form government anyway.

This policy will see thousands of children made homeless. Real children who exist now. This is not about denying housing to those who "have a child to get a flat" hmm. This is also about denying housing to anyone under 25 who goes onto benefits because they've lost their job, or their circumstances change, if they don't have family to back them up.

Rubysmommy Wed 10-Oct-12 14:03:44

Well said outraged !

Inneedofbrandy Wed 10-Oct-12 14:09:21

Of course anyone who voted tory won't feel guilt or sadness at homeless children, especially the ones who knew how it was under thatcher and still voted them back in.

I actually couldn't be friends with anyone who is a conservative. I wouldn't class torys any diff then BNP or UKIP.

MrsHowardRoark Wed 10-Oct-12 14:10:24

I agree with Outraged.

I doubt all New Labour voters feel they have blood on their hands for the thousands killed in an illegal war.

wolvesdidit Wed 10-Oct-12 14:10:57

I voted lib dem (usually a labour voter but was pissed off with them about various things) and I feel really guilty. I will never ever vote Lib Dem or Tory in my life. They are wicked.

aufaniae Wed 10-Oct-12 14:12:39

The wars in Afganistan and Iraq are a fair point - however I protested against both so personally don't feel I supported them.

Are you out protesting against policies which will see thousands of families pushed onto poverty and homelessness?

EnjoyVampirebloodResponsibly Wed 10-Oct-12 14:12:47

Well OP I voted Conservative last time and I shall vote for them again.

I think that your OP title is ridiculous, hysterical and offensive and I agree with Outraged, where were YOU when it came to objecting to sending <25's to fight a pointless war.

EnjoyVampirebloodResponsibly Wed 10-Oct-12 14:13:40

It's a PROPOSAL and if its wrong, then yes I will object and visibly so.

degutastic Wed 10-Oct-12 14:13:53

I voted Tory and I will again. I feel no guilt, because I think they're doing a good job for the country.

I make my own moral judgements and will not feel guilty because some ill-informed or misguided (in my humble opinion, naturally) forum user on the internet has told me to smile

InfestationofLannisters Wed 10-Oct-12 14:14:03

"after all contraception is freely available in this country"

Reproductive rights are okay for now but this government would like them to be eroded

Inneedofbrandy Wed 10-Oct-12 14:14:30

Are you out protesting against policies which will see thousands of families pushed onto poverty and homelessness? Well said.

I was still in school when the Iraq war started, and almost the whole school protested.

dreamingofsun Wed 10-Oct-12 14:15:40

i feel that a person under 25 who has had children when they can't support them is more wicked than a tory supporter. yes I know some people's circumstances change - so exclude them from this argument. why blame tory's when its that person's decision that has caused their problems. people need to take personal responsibility and stop blaming their situation on tory voters.

CagneyNLacey Wed 10-Oct-12 14:17:14

You're wasting your time, OP. There are 2 types of tory voters- the first kind couldnt give a fuck about people less well off than they are (regardless of why they are poor, if they are working, etc). The second type think they are the first type but are actually too fucking stupid to realise that the tories would (and will) screw them too.

This thread is not accepting new messages.