to think that there are people who choose to live a life on benefits?

(1000 Posts)
autumnlights12 Wed 10-Oct-12 11:51:39

the recent threads about George Osbourne made me wonder..
A high number of posters say that people don't choose to live like that, they stumble into it, hate it, what a miserable existence it is, nobody would ever choose it etc..
but if you have two or three children through choice, whilst at the same time having no job to provide for them, or if you turn down the job at the local factory (as I know someone who did) because it pays £7.50 an hour and a full time job there doesn't give you the same unemployment rights and benefits, isn't that choosing to live a life on benefits? Or being trapped on benefits? I'm not talking about people who can't work, disabled people, ill people, women dumped by feckless ex and left to fend for herself etc.. of course they should be protected.
I was watching 999 What's Your Emergency and I know that area. And I know people like that exist. And it's often a second, third generation who have never worked a day in their life, even during times when work was freely available. In the town I live, we have numerous Eastern European immigrants who all seem to be working, but mostly in low paid work the locals wont do
What say you?

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 12:56:52

Outraged: I accept what you say and yes, it's hard with teenagers. But at primary, mainly, children are let down and if they're educated differently they would be more likely to stick with it. I've had three children go through primary and I know how much goes on that is dispensable in favour of reading, typing, writing, grammar and times tables.

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 12:57:36

Sorry Brycie, but as a teacher that is a total load of bollocks.

The schools see the children for a minimal amount of time and have minimal influence compared to the influence of the parents. The sad fact is that where the parental influence is so malignant, the schools are largely powerless.

Schools have enough to do with educating the children. Raising them is a parent's job.

morethanpotatoprints Wed 10-Oct-12 12:59:28

Brycie, unfortunately education doesn't help, neither does regeneration. Many governments have tried these approaches and long term they don't make a jot of difference.
Whether people like it or not there will always be a " feckless" few, and they are a few of the population. Now the problem is that everyone on benefit is considered as such due to spin from government.

Jinsei, people like you are the true spirit of what this country needs. thanks
I'm not feckless but do really rely and need tc, which we will lose with uc.

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 12:59:33

No Brycie, rainforest projects etc are NOT dispensible. They bring together ALL the other skills that a child has learned, maths, literacy, reading, whatever.

Would you prefer schools to be full of rote learning robots like 100 years ago? How would that help the welfare system?

Why don't you let the teachers teach and stick to your own job?

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:00:41

Why am I not suprised that a teacher disagrees with me. Integrated learning anyone?

Yes I would prefer that children learn to read, write, use grammar and know their times tables than do a rainforest project. Any time.

Laquitar Wed 10-Oct-12 13:00:51

Yes, i ve read the thread and i don't see any evidence. Only 'i know someone who..' hmm

As for hard working people from abroad, well yes some of them will accept any conditions rather than going back to their countries where there are no employment rights, or they could be killed for their political views or women will be lashed for not covering up etc. Is this something to envy?

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:02:10

Minimal amount of time my foot. You have them for six and a half hours a day, when they're at their brightest, not tired, as after school, in an environment conducive to learning. If they don't know their times tables after six years of that you have failed.

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:02:54

Laquitar: yes I suppose they could all be lying, but it's a bit odd to imply that.

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 13:03:02

Brycie they do that AS WELL AS and WHILE they are doing "projects", or are you being deliberately obtuse?

If any two people wish to give up their jobs and come and meet my three disabled kids' care needs then I can work.

Anyone?

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 13:04:02

And no, you shouldn't be surprised Brycie that an experienced and trained professional knows more than you...

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:04:35

Really - that's why they're all so literate and numerate when they leave primary then.

Oh wait - they're not.

It's dispensable by the way.

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 13:05:31

Ok, I have better things to do than this. Brycie you are coming across very ignorantly.

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:05:44

You don't know more than me. Although you do know how to put in italics, but then, I know how to spell dispensable. It's a toss up.

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 13:06:03

Oh now pointing out typos??

You're so clever!!!

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:06:42

You have better things to do as a teacher than justify the levels of illiteracy and innumeracy at 11? Or is it just too difficult?

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:07:33

I'm just waiting for you to blame the parents Cake. I feel that train coming up over the hill.

CakeBump Wed 10-Oct-12 13:08:15

Yes, funnily enough it's not up to me to justify levels of illiteracy at 11.

I teach.

The government can justify itself to you all it wants to.

Really never thought I would find myself saying this, but I agree with Brycie on this.

Children of school age spend more waking hours with their teacher than they do with their parents.

Rainforest projects might well be important teaching tools. But nothing should come infront of teaching children the basics.

TalkinPeace2 Wed 10-Oct-12 13:08:50

My former cleaner. Four kids, four dads. No qualifications. Two of the dads brothers. Two in prison (overlap). Her Mum in and out of prison. Her one of multiple children of a prostitute. Oldest child permanently excluded from school no qualifications. Nice Sky dish and DFS furniture in her front room.
Not my choices, but no real hope for her now - just have to work on the younger kids ....

Laquitar Wed 10-Oct-12 13:08:57

fgs i don't imply that they all lie but 4 people don't represent the country.

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:09:51

"I teach. It's not up to me to justify levels of illiteracy."

Because of course they're totally unconnected. (I'm being sarcastic.)

Thank you wannabedomesticgoddess.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos Wed 10-Oct-12 13:10:03

They are not at their brightest if they haven't been given breakfast and they refuse school dinners so instead have a packed lunch of crips and mini rolls. That does happen, all too frequently ime.

I would suggest a teacher had failed if the only things they had learned at school was how to recite time tables and read. Education is about so much more than that, and parents have to be responsible for that.

Teachers could spend all day every day making children repeat tables and going through letter sounds/reading/etc, but if a child is told at home that the teachers are bitches that just want to control people, then they are simply not going to be in the frame of mind to learn.

Do you think things like PE should be dropped? I've seen children start school at reception age that have never even played with a ball, have no idea even how to kick or catch, let alone those who have never seen a book or a jigsaw puzzle.

I agree that something needs to be done, but the responsibility belongs to parents not teachers.

ouryve Wed 10-Oct-12 13:10:55

Whenever an system is put in place to provide a cushion for people in need, there will be a minority of people who take the piss. Yes, it does happen with benefits. There's business laws which, quite rightly, protect the liability of business owners who go bust because this can happen thought no fault of their own, sometimes - which is abused by people who run serial businesses into the ground with no real effort to make the business work, or pay its bills (including to HMRC). There's various tax avoidance schemes, which people with the means use to avoid paying their share of tax. Then there's the whole idea of parliamentary expenses....

People are on the make in all walks of life. It's just that this government are rather selective about which ones they will make a noise about tackling, all the while pretending that they're doing everyone else who will suffer from the reforms a favour. Meantime, those who expect something for nothing will keep on finding a way to get it.

Brycie Wed 10-Oct-12 13:11:18

"Rainforest projects etc are NOT dispensible!"

This is actually quite a funny thing to say, or would be if it wasn't for the crisis of low standards.

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