To bring the puppy into our room to sleep?

(66 Posts)
D0oinMeCleanin Sat 06-Oct-12 10:31:44

Not on the bed. He did eventually, last night settle by my side of the bed, next to the radiator on the floor. If I brought his bed there he would settle there.

He settled there after me being up at 2am, 3-4am, and then again at 5am. I was at work yesterday lunch time and evening. I am at work again the same today. I am catching up on all the house work tomorrow because DH is injured or not, probably not

He has issues with being apart from me. I am the source of his fun, walks, games, training, food and affection. While DH is is alone the pup effectively shuts down because he knows there is little chance of any attention any how so he stays in his bed. When I am in all hell breaks loose.

He now stays calmly in his bed or settled on the sofa during the day, after two days of training. He knows he only gets interaction on my terms now so no longer mauls me continuously throughout the day. He still likes to be close to me.

DH did nothing for the pup last night despite having today and tomorrow off to sleep all day. He is saying I am not allowed to bring the puppy into our room so I can get some much needed sleep. He also will not help reinforce pup loving his bed while I am at work meaning any training I am doing with him is taking three times as long.

He is willing he says, to go and buy a crate because I have expressed interest in crate training the puppy. He thinks the pup will just automatically love being in the crate and will sleep soundly tonight in the dining room in his new crate with no training what so ever because Google told him puppies like crates bullshit, pup would howl the house and destroy the crate in minutes

AIBU to utterly discount DH's views on the basis that he is a twat and bring the dog into our room tonight anyway?

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Sat 06-Oct-12 11:58:43

Right

Re: Cages. The people who always have the snippiest debates about cages are 99% of the time, huge advocates of dog welfare and care very much about their dogs. So regardless of stance, advice on how they got there problem sleepers to stay put is good.

Dooin: I get why you posted in AIBU not DH.
Is it still your intention that Pup gets a forever home? If it is than I think crate training is the way to go, I think with a nice blanket slept on by you, some chews and a kong, you might get lucky. And it will make life easier for him and his forever home.

If the pups for keeps, than if this is going to be dh's attitude hence forth than I'd go with whichever method allows you to get some sleep. If he won't help, than I'm afraid he can't expect you to operate forever only half charged, it's dangerous.

babybythesea Sat 06-Oct-12 12:03:10

Being in the bedroom doesn't mean being on the bed though, does it?
All my parent's dogs, and mine, are not allowed on furniture - whether upstairs or downstairs.
I really had never realised that dogs in the bedroom was such a massive thing for lots of people. I took it for granted.
I've also never used a crate - I have occasionally shut dogs in the kitchen - mostly when they are puppies and are not housetrained, or with upset tummies. Again, I've never known an issue with dogs allowed to wander freely round the house.
I've always owned collies (rough collies, not borders). Does breed make a difference?

catsrus Sat 06-Oct-12 12:17:54

I've done the "puppy in the bedroom next to my bed" routine, but that was from 8 weeks when they were used to being with mum. Once they were secure and comfortable in their own bed downstairs they all adapted to that.

With rescues I have always blush slept on the sofa downstairs with them for a couple of weeks until they felt at home. My DCs took it in turns to do it too once they were a bit older. Again, that seemed to work OK, but we have usually had more than one dog so they keep each other company. The two reasons my dogs don't sleep in the bedroom are the cats sleep there (and dog1 would see them off) and exH didn't like it (but put up with it during puppy period - was happier with me on the sofa though hmm).

I've always done this and never had to deal with separation anxiety because they don't get the chance to get anxious before they get secure and feel the house is 'home'. Never used a crate either. (9 dogs over the past 20+ yrs, 4 of them rescues)

CakeMeIAmYours Sat 06-Oct-12 12:41:59

You don't want advice from experienced dog people,

I have to laugh at this, Dooin is one of the most experienced and knowledgeable regular posters on the Doghouse board smile

I think the key question is whether you are going to be this pup's forever home. If so, on the bed would be fine (the little chap's had a hard enough life as it is). If not, better not to get too close.

IMO, Separation Anxiety is caused by the pup not believing that you will always come back, and isn't surprising given this pup's history. If you are planning to keep him, just lovebomb him, keep him close and stroke those silky ears smile.

We crate trained our pup from the day he came to us at 8 weeks old, then at about a year old he started sleeping on our bed in our room. IMO 11 months old is too old to start crate training an already anxious pup.

midori1999 Sat 06-Oct-12 12:44:06

This thread is like some weird twighlight zone... Dooin, why are you posting here and not the DH? You know you won't get any sensible advice about dogs in here. In fact, you probably won't in the Doghouse any more either, since Minimu, Val etc have left..... sad Sleeping on the bed creates a biter?! Bizarre advice....

If you are fostering him for a rescue, why don't you ask the rescue for advice?

I think how long he is likely to be with you has a lot to do with how you handle this. I think in a foster situation I myself would probably opt for a crate next to the bed and you may need to do this to crate train him anyway if he is an older puppy. I think there is often some eliment of crying it out with puppies, unless the breeder has been able to teach them some independance before you get them and obviously this doesn't apply here.

As for why crates are called crates and not cages. No idea. However, they are equally called 'beds' in this house and if I have one up, as many dogs as possible who are far to big to fit any more will cram into it to sleep. They will also happily go in despite knowing they are going to be shut in, (dogs not properly crate trained don't) presumably as they were going to spend the whole time I was out in it anyway, sleeping, so it makes no difference to them whether the door is shut or not.

Unless you never go out at all, never leave the puppy unsupervised at night, never have to divert your attention to cooking dinner or DC for a few minutes, crates are a very useful training aid which also means a puppy is safe. Some puppies never chew much anyway, but chewing is not and should not be an accepted part of puppy ownership, it is dangerous and potentially life threatening to the puppy, being able to teach the puppy the right things to chew from day one is better for the dog and being able to toilet train with no accidents and as fast as possible is also better for the dog.

D0oinMeCleanin Sat 06-Oct-12 14:26:33

The rescue advised letting him cry at night and waiting it out, making sure he has access to chewing toys and water. Which was fine and worked for the first two months, he'd whine for about 15 minutes and then settle down with his Kong for the night.

Then he learnt to open doors. We've been having issues with him with doors for a week now. He was aware that sometimes when he jumps on it opens, he just didn't know what, exactly was making it open. He learnt that two days ago. I spent an hour last night doing the puppy equivalent of SuperNanny's rapid return. He gave in after an hour and went to sleep on his bed in the dining room. He woke up an hour later, let himself out of the dining room and onto my bed again. By this point I had lost the will to live, so just nudged him off of the bed and he settled himself by the radiator where he stayed quietly for the rest of night/morning (it was 5am by this point)

He won't be staying with us permanently but with him being as bouncy as he is I don't think he'll be going anywhere very soon. People looking for lurchers and greyhounds generally expect calm, quiet dogs, when they meet puppy they meet a kangaroo on a lead hmm

Calmness in the house though the day (my previous biggest bug bear with him) has been achieved, but has been replaced with being unmanageable on a night.

I am aware that his new home most likely won't want him in their room, so I do want to train him to sleep alone. I just want to do it in a way that will be gentle for him and allow me enough sleep to cope with him though the day and continue his training. He has come one in leaps and bounds, he really has, but there are days where I feel like I fix one issue with him and throws another three at me.

I posted here because I wanted views from people who like DH, might not understand what I am doing or why, however after a calm discussion, fuelled by copious amounts of caffeine DH now understands what I intend to do and is happy to trust me with it, so he will be coming into our room (crated eventually) and then slowly move back to the dining room. DH will be reinforcing pup being calm on an evening by way of tossing him a treat every now and again when he is settled and ignoring any play fighting or unwanted behaviour completely.

When he first came to us walking him made me cry he was that uncontrollable. I hated him and I hated the effect he had on my dogs. Walking him is a pleasure now. He walks very nicely, he recalls well, he sits when he sees other leashed dogs waiting for them to pass, he still bounces if an unleashed dog runs up to him while he is still on his lead, or if we pass large groups of dogs, this we are working on and also on meeting people properly and not jumping up. He's doing brilliantly but after being kept awake all night by him sometimes it's hard to focus on just how much he has learnt in such a short space of time. He really is lovely dog and very eager to please. I am introducing a clicker to our training on Monday and I have no doubt he will take to it like a duck to water and learn even quicker what is expected of him.

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Sat 06-Oct-12 16:25:20

Dooin, you are doing a grand job. And I am sure he will find a home. I got Hullygully because her mums rescuer looked me up and down and said "you'd suit the Loon" grin and she was right.

My dh likes walking along with a well behaved easy dog and telling people how wonderful they are.

Chewed sky remotes, missing socks and labradors hell bent on suicide missions are my problem hmm, despite him wanting her.

DH loves dogs, he just doesn't understand them. This occasionally leads to what he considers a difference of opinion, and what I consider a viable reason to shove a a Kong up his arse.

SammyTheSwedishSquirrel Sat 06-Oct-12 17:15:46

D0oin, I'd do the same as you. I'd have the dog in the bedroom next to mine. I've taken in some seriously traumatised dogs over the years and in my experience being near the person they trust when they are scared works best for everyone.

I've never felt the need to crate train and I've never had any behavioural issues, apart from current LittleBastardDog who's the most defiant little bugger I've ever come across in the canine world. grin

booitsme Sat 06-Oct-12 19:46:28

Def get a crate. Our puppy feels very safe and secure. I'm sure others would think this is wrong... But we have the crate downstairs in the day and he seems fine being left in it. However, we carry the crate into our bedroom at night. No risk of accidents on floor or doggie smells on bed... But the puppy is really happy and sleeps all night as he knows we are there.

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Sat 06-Oct-12 19:54:00

It's a crate not a cage btw, because it is a safe way to transport them. It folds flat for this purpose and can go where the animal does.

The intention of a crate is to keep an animal safe. A cage is to confine an animal.

A crate can of course be abused but generally crates spend more time with the door open than the door shut.

My puppy has a pen, rather than closed over crate. She is more than capable of jumping out - she chooses not to.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 07-Oct-12 10:31:56

Well it worked.

I settled him into his bed in the dining room as normal, with his Kong. He stayed settled until about 4am apparently and then let himself out and cam upstairs. DH says he attempted to get on my side of the bed with me but after the night before I was so tired I didn't notice. DH did what he has seen me do and pointed to the spare dog I set up by my side of the bed, so pup went and laid straight down on it and slept for longer than he ever has done since being here.

Something is waking him up during the night and he is getting up. I don't know if he is waking for the loo, the backdoor has been opened both nights he's let himself out of the dining room.

My next step is going to be to buy some rope to put the round the door handles and teach him to close doors after himself. He's got the house bloody freezing wandering around opening all the doors and leaving them that way grin

Everyone has slept, every one is happy. I'm not sure he will need a crate. My idea of the crate was to prevent him opening the doors and letting him into rooms he should not be in, but to be fair, he's pretty much stopped systematically destroying the house now he knows he can't be locked anywhere.

So would potential adopters by his sleeping where he pleases? Would crate training help him find a home?

InvisibleHotPinkWeasel Sun 07-Oct-12 13:02:21

<<hi fives Dooin>>

Excellent smile, bet you feel a lot better than you did yesterday morning.

schoolgovernor Sun 07-Oct-12 13:23:25

Can't you lock your back door?

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 07-Oct-12 13:30:35

Oh yes, I feel much better.

Yesterday was the worst day with pup since the time he dived on me on his walk resulting in my terrier attacking him, my whippy slipping her collar and running off in fear and leaving me with a sprained shoulder and twisted ankle hmm

I would say I miss the days when the rescue would give me nice, non challenging, lazy greyhounds, but when I've had sleep the prospect of training a dog as clever as this one is fun.

He is currently pacing around the room whining because he is not allowed in the room the dc are in with their lunch, but ignoring him seems to be working. Once he settles on his bed I'll treat him and soon he'll learn to be calm while people are eating.

D0oinMeCleanin Sun 07-Oct-12 13:32:20

We can lock the backdoor yes, but rarely do. I don't mind him letting himself out to the loo, just opening the kitchen door is enough to to freeze us all in our beds and we can't lock that one. Closing the doors after himself would be the better option. That way he can let himself and the other dogs in and out as he wishes.

boomting Sun 07-Oct-12 15:56:37

I'm yet to understand this modern obsession with crating - I grew up with (toy-sized) dogs that had the run of the house, slept on the beds (until they got to old to leap up there by themselves) and never saw hide nor hair of a crate cage. They were even <gasp> sometimes fed human food.

And yet, despite one of them being a rescue, they never bit anyone, never had separation anxiety (there was usually someone in, but we had no qualms about going out all day and leaving them, and they never caused any damage) and no other real undesirable characteristics!

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