Surely Jeremy Hunt has got to go???

(1000 Posts)
stillorsparkling Sat 06-Oct-12 08:35:00

Apparently he supports reducing the legal cut off for abortion to 12 weeks.

He's the health secretary FFS!!!!!

bellabreeze Sat 06-Oct-12 13:31:48

It is rare jellybeans but it has happened which just proves it makes no sense to end a babies life at that age

hackmum Sat 06-Oct-12 13:31:52

It's interesting this has come out just after the Jimmy Savile revelations. It has given me an acute sense of women's vulnerability at the hands of men. I keep thinking about that poor girl who was raped at the age of 16 by Savile and her mum had to arrange an illegal abortion for her when she was 12 weeks pregnant. Imagine having to carry a pregnancy to term having been raped by that vile man. But I suppose it would keep people like Hunt happy.

WithoutCaution Sat 06-Oct-12 13:54:30

"So why don't the laws change that you are 'allowed' an abortion for any reason up to 12 weeks (giving up the pretence of it of it being for health reasons) and keep the current laws (however abhorrent I think they are) that an abortion is allowed up to term for fetal causes and (I agree with this bit) to save the life of the mother."

What happens with the women, like me, who didn't know they were pregnant until after they were 12 weeks? Do we suddenly have to keep a child that we may have never wanted if the child doesn't develop abnormalities or threatens our health? You do realise that women will go else where if they can't get an abortion here... The rights of the mother should trump any 'rights' of the fetus

EasilyBored Sat 06-Oct-12 14:05:28

Say you don't realise you are pregnant till your period is a couple of weeks late, so you're 6 weeks pregnant. You can get an appointment with your GO for a week or so, so you're nearly 8 weeks. They make the referral, but that takes 3 weeks. So you're over the limit already, and that is without taking a couple of weeks to really weigh up your options. 12 weeks is just not long enough.

OTTMummA Sat 06-Oct-12 14:11:33

It wasn't long ago i was reading this
No doubt this woman has MH problems, but i don't think the current laws serve all women equally,the woman in the article was very lucky she didn't do herself damage or kill herself as well.
Dispite feeling quite upset about the idea of terminating late in pregnancy i do thing that women should be able to have an abortion up to a day before the due date.
I didn't know i was pregnant with my first until i was nearly 23 weeks, even under the current laws, it would of been too late for me to request an abortion, i know that if i hadn't had the huge amount of support around me, i wouldn't of coped, and would of considered abortion, combined with my long term MH problems i can not say that i wouldn't of ended up trying to kill myself if i had felt desperate enough.

I also grew up partly in foster care, the system can't cope with the amount of children already in care,, also i can not fathom how much worse it would be to a childs emotional wellbeing to know that you were not wanted at all, and if you were born x amount of time before then you wouldn't be alive.

As someone else has said, abortions have and will always happen, we need to make sure women feel safe and secure that she will be able to have full body autonomy.

I have the right to decided to donate blood and organs
I have the right to decided wether i want to be resuscitated
I have the right to decided what goes in and out of my body
I have the right to refuse medical assistance
I should also have the right to decided if i want to end a pregnancy.

LineRunner Sat 06-Oct-12 14:12:58

Just heard the news that the government has 'no plans to change abortion law'.

Hunt is such a prat.

pollyblue Sat 06-Oct-12 14:16:12

God help us if this comes to pass (I doubt it will, but.....) and the likes of backstreet abortionists reappear.

I agree that Jeremy Hunt is entitled to his personal views, of course I do. But he is employed in a position where those personal views could bring him into conflict with his professional role, which is surely to legislate from the head, not the heart?

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Xenia Sat 06-Oct-12 14:29:36

It has always been a free view/vote issue in recent years for politicians.
12 weeks is very hard to understand. Either you think life begins at conception like Catholics in which case there is no difference between 1 week or 40 week gestation and even aborting a down's child at 2 weeks or even 42 weeks is killing, or you don't believe that. I don't know why Hunt thinks God has spoken to him to tell him life begins at 12 weeks.

He married in China rather late in life at around 40 to a Chinese lady and I think he had one child 2 years ago and a new baby this year.

This sort of comment does Cameron no good - he is already doing very badly with keeping women voters particularly because of the poor representation of women in positions of power in the cabinet.

Also given 90%+ of British parents abort children with down's and many find out after 12 weeks it is certainly going to make that a rather difficult issue. Does he want the NHS and social serviecs to be caring for large numbers of down's babies rejected by the 90% + of parents would might have aborted them under current law which allows abortion on disability grounds at any time up to birth?

totallynaive Sat 06-Oct-12 14:30:44

Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm wondering where the invisible libdems would stand on this. Can't remember them being particularly supportive of changes to the current law in the past. Are they going to tell Hunt to stick this up his a**e or just simper along with it just in case they get their much more important "mansion" tax?

LineRunner Sat 06-Oct-12 14:33:39

Lib Dems are pro choice. They support women having autonomy over their own bodies.

Hunt's a fool.

OTTMummA Sat 06-Oct-12 14:33:47

I can not fathom why anyone, especially any woman would want to force another woman to go through with a pregnancy and birth she didn't want.

What do you think will happen? Do you think that she will eventually change her mind and imbrace motherhood with all its back breaking glory?
That after the baby is here that she will look into her baby's eyes well up with pride and thank her stars that there were other more reasonable wise people in the world who made this choice for her?

What about the child? do you think it will thank you for how it came to be?

There are so, so many valid reasons NOT to lower the time limit.

grovel Sat 06-Oct-12 14:35:51

THERE ARE NO GOVERNMENT PLANS TO CHANGE THE LAW.

Hunt was asked in an interview. When he last voted on the subject he voted for 12 weeks. He was just being consistent.

Keep calm and carry on.

LineRunner Sat 06-Oct-12 14:36:57

It's worrying though that such an idiot is in charge of the health service. I may need to panic just a little.

quesadilla Sat 06-Oct-12 14:38:27

It is pretty astonishing. Its one thing holding this view, which is a personal opinion in good faith (which I happen to find abhorrent but that's by the by) but expressing it while in a position of being the person with control over the NHS is an astonishing lack of political savvy and responsibility And I thought Andrew Lansley was a walking nightmare.
I presume Cameron knew he was going to make this disclosure which, as several people have said, severely calls into question his judgement. Hunt made a complete car-crash of being culture secretary and within weeks of being health secretary has ratcheted up the levels of barbarity several degrees.Those of you who are emailing him, are you just doing it through his constituency email? Is there a petition anywhere one can sign?

carefulobserver Sat 06-Oct-12 14:43:38

EasilyBored: "Say you don't realise you are pregnant till your period is a couple of weeks late, so you're 6 weeks pregnant. You can get an appointment with your GO for a week or so, so you're nearly 8 weeks. They make the referral, but that takes 3 weeks. So you're over the limit already, and that is without taking a couple of weeks to really weigh up your options. 12 weeks is just not long enough."

I think that's probably the point - he's probably completely pro-life.

And concerning that legislation: if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith -
(a) that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family;

All pregnancies carried to term pose a greater risk to the mother's health than would a termination. That's why we really have so called abortion on demand. Doctor's are not disregarding the law, they are just aware that all pregnancies carry pretty huge risks to the mother's health and every woman should have the right to decide whether she wants to take on these health risks at this time in her life.

Liketochat1 Sat 06-Oct-12 14:44:50

Yabu. He's entitled to have an opinion on this. I think it's a discussion worth having. It would bring the UK more in line with most European countries. His view would be considered fairly normal there. centreantigona.uab.cat/docs/articulos/Lleis%20avortives%20a%20Europa%20(anglès).pdf.
Of course fetuses are unborn babies or children and can be referred to as such. It's ridiculous to say otherwise.
Of course the mother's well being is important but, in my opinion, her life is not worth more than any other born or unborn. I've always struggled to understand why children are the most protected in our society once out of the womb but inside it they are the most at risk.
I struggle to understand how I can be asked to give all my compassion to a woman with an unwanted pregnancy and none at all for the life that will be ended. Why so much to one life and none for the other?

peachespearsandapples Sat 06-Oct-12 14:49:02

I completely agree with you Liketochat and everything you say in your post.

I agree that the limit should be lower. That does not make me anti-women, not a feminist, or a conservative. I believe in human rights, and think very much that there are two lives involved in any decision about termination.

So much frothing about women's rights - no one seems to care about the unborn child who has no voice at all.

OTTMummA Sat 06-Oct-12 14:51:22

There are people in the world that object against abortion altogether Liketochat1, they believe if you are raped and concieve from that rape then you shouldn't have an abortion, you should carry that fetus to term, go through birth and be grateful that 'god' has blessed you with a child.

This opinion is no different IMO than the one jeremy hunt takes.

Would you be ok with being forced to carry and birth a child of rape?
Why should anyone tell you what should happen to your body?

OTTMummA Sat 06-Oct-12 14:52:56

Why would you want to have a baby born that isn't wanted?

missymoomoomee Sat 06-Oct-12 14:57:24

I would have had an abortion because I loved my child so much. I would have had an abortion to save her having painful procedures, to save all of her bones being broken, to save her brain being perfectly active yet her body not working at all, to save her from getting infections because of her breathing tubes, and to save her life support being switched off and watch her die in my arms.

I'm sure the vast majority of people who have late abortions are in similar postions.

So don't ever say that they don't care about their child.

Ponyofdoom Sat 06-Oct-12 15:04:20

peaches, it doesn't mean not caring about the 'unborn child' it means seeing that there is a hard choice between the 'unborn child' or the woman. So obviously you should prioritise the rights and health of the conscious adult woman.

YouMayLogOut Sat 06-Oct-12 15:06:28

missymoomoomee that's a very wise and thoughtful post - couldn't agree more.

LittleFrieda Sat 06-Oct-12 15:07:03

Grovel Quite.

Xenia Sat 06-Oct-12 15:07:48

OTT, surely it's not that hard to fathom? If you think life is formed at conceptions as lots of people do then to kill it is murder, as much murder as going into the street and shooting a mother and children. I don't support that view but I can fully understand it. It's a logical ethical view.

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