Surely Jeremy Hunt has got to go???

(1000 Posts)
stillorsparkling Sat 06-Oct-12 08:35:00

Apparently he supports reducing the legal cut off for abortion to 12 weeks.

He's the health secretary FFS!!!!!

AngryBeaver Sat 06-Oct-12 10:24:12

A few years ago,I am may have agreed <naive>
Unfortunately, I have been enlightened. In July we had to say goodbye to our little girl at 18 weeks. She had Downs and other problems.
I may have been able todecide earlier, but whe I went for a CVS at 10 weeks, the placenta was posterior, so they couldn''t do the test without perforating my bowel.
This meant I had to wait several weeks until I could have an amnio. Then wait for the results.
Then I had to wait for word from the hospital. We are in NZ. Obviouly, smaller country, less people,less doctors.
i did everything I couod to move the appointment forward, I cried and screamed on the phone to secretaries, and midwives. 18 weeks was the earliest they could see me.
It was the most horrendous experience I have ever gone through.
If someone had said to me, you will ahve a baby with severe health abnormalities, that will be in and out of hospital and probably in pain, for the duration of their short lives, but ar 18 weeks,there's nothing we can do!
I'm not sure where I would have gone from there.
As if times like this aren't crippling enough.
Lucky him that he has never experienced anything other that "normal"

limitedperiodonly Sat 06-Oct-12 10:24:31

dehli I disagree with you on a number of points but for simplicity, I'm going to stick to this one: how do you propose to grant abortion on the grounds that the woman has been raped without there being a criminal conviction?

MsGee Sat 06-Oct-12 10:26:06

I had a TFMR at 12 weeks.

I do not distinguish between my right to make that decision or a woman in different circumstances.

People having terminations after 12 or 20 weeks are in a difficult enough situation - no matter what the circumstances. We need to focus on improving the system do that people don't have to wait weeks for abortions and so that women who do make that choice have the support they need.

Stupid comments such as "i love babies'" are quite frankly ridiculous. Have all the uninformed opinions you like but do not legislate over women's bodies, do not erode women's choices, because of them.

whistlestopcafe Sat 06-Oct-12 10:26:43

I'm sorry you had to through that AngryBeaver. sad

I think that terminations can be carried out at any time if there are any medical problems. I don't think anyone is proposing a change to this.

LongTimeLurking Sat 06-Oct-12 10:28:34

Jeremy Cunt Hunt never should have got the freaking job after all the sleaze that came out around him and the Murdochs.

I think 24 weeks is possibly too long, but 12 weeks is not long enough. I think previous posters are right, this is a tactic to soften people up to the idea of 20 weeks.

This type of decision really shouldn't be politicised, it should come down to the medical evidence and trying to do the best for women and of course the unborn baby.

MsGee Sat 06-Oct-12 10:29:15

AngryBeaver I am so sorry. Sorry that you faced such choices and sorry the system made it all the more difficult for you.

It is still very raw for you, please do not let the uninformed comments on these threads add to your pain. People find it easy to spout shit about things they have never experienced.

BartletForTeamGB Sat 06-Oct-12 10:30:22

"If someone had said to me, you will ahve a baby with severe health abnormalities, that will be in and out of hospital and probably in pain, for the duration of their short lives, but ar 18 weeks,there's nothing we can do!"

Terminations for medical reasons continue to be allowed up to TERM and this proposal does not change that.

BartletForTeamGB Sat 06-Oct-12 10:32:41

"Lucky him that he has never experienced anything other that "normal""

Just to make clear that it is not just people who have had 'normal' pregnancies who think this. I, and sadly a few friends, have all had babies whose conditions were incompatible with life and all of us declined termination chose to continue to carry on the pregnancies until our babies died.

Anyway, that isn't the issue at stake here.

BartletForTeamGB Sat 06-Oct-12 10:33:20

"People find it easy to spout shit about things they have never experienced."


I have experienced that. I continued the pregnancy and did not have a termination.

MsGee Sat 06-Oct-12 10:34:40

whistlestop you are right - I think that if you are pro-choice though you stand firm and stand together.

Although my termination was for medical reasons I do not want discussions to go down the road of acceptable and unacceptable abortions. I also think the way in which some people demonise abortions and women who have them affects us all.

EasilyBored Sat 06-Oct-12 10:38:04

But that was your choice. No one is goingto take that choice away from you. Surely you can understand that it would be barbaric to force a woman to go through that, if she didn't want to?

MsGee Sat 06-Oct-12 10:38:27

Bartlet then that was the right choice for you. It does not mean that it's the right choice for everyone. You cannot think legislation should change on the basis of a personal experience or feeling.

Evidence shows that women having abortions after 20 weeks are in incredibly difficult situations, even where there are no medical reasons. Women who need support. Women who need the option of choosing what is right for them.

Zara1984 Sat 06-Oct-12 10:40:12

You had the choice to make the decision that was right for you and your family bartlet - it doesn't mean the law should change to take away the choice for others who would've chosen differently in that situation.

5madthings Sat 06-Oct-12 10:42:19

What easily bored said earlier and athing imo if anything changes need to be made to make abortion easier to access.

The current abirtion laws are also disabilist, if you can have an abortion to term for disability then it shouls be to term for all.

'as early as possible, as late as necessary' from another thread on this subject. And it sums up my view.

Ponyofdoom Sat 06-Oct-12 11:16:46

Agree 100% wigglesrock. I think its disgusting that this man wants to put foetuses before women and I will be re thinking voting Tory due to this (and HS2). I have always voted Tory before now.

Toothiepeg Sat 06-Oct-12 11:18:25

I work for the NHS/ If Cunt Hunt come near my hospital I don't think I'll be able to restrain myself from asking him if he's committed to carrying his own pregnancies to term............

Toothiepeg Sat 06-Oct-12 11:21:33

BartletforTeamGB - I may be mistaken but I thought you were a GP? Please tell me I'm wrong.

Dawndonna Sat 06-Oct-12 11:29:28

All the emotive stuff flying around. At the end of the day, yet again, a man is trying to force his opinion on a woman.
Hunt should stand down and maybe a female health minister would be a better option, but then again, Maria Miller supports the 12 week option too.
Just somebody who supports the right of women to have freedom of choice would be good, but the fecking tories are in power so little chance of that,then.

Ponyofdoom Sat 06-Oct-12 11:30:39

Bartlet, so what happens if a woman forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy commits suicide, as would happen-then both lives have been lost, no one wins. Just because you could cope with an unwanted pregnancy doesnt mean others could. I would be genuinely suicidal.

hackmum Sat 06-Oct-12 11:37:45

AngryBeaver: I'm really sorry too that you had to go through such a terrible experience.

I wonder if people like Hunt understand why late abortions happen. A friend of mine discovered at her 20-week scan that her baby had Down's Syndrome with severe heart abnormalities and wouldn't live for more than a few hours after birth. (She had always said she wouldn't abort a baby with Down's, and for that reason hadn't taken the opportunity to have a nuchal fold scan earlier in pregnancy.) So she had to make the heartbreaking decision to take the doctors' advice and have a termination at 21 weeks.

I'm not quite sure what purpose would have been served by forcing her to carry the pregnancy to term.

babybythesea Sat 06-Oct-12 11:40:18

I know a couple of women who have had abortions.
I also know of women who have gone for them and been unable to go through with them.
Undoubtedly there are people who see them as a 'free and easy method of contraception'. But i don't think this is the majority of people.
I think many people who opt for this agonise over it. I know one person who only realised she was pregnanct at 11 weeks. She chose an abortion (although she was someone who went to the clinic and then couldn't go through with it). She'd have had a week to make a massive decision, which has impacted on the rest of her life, while her head was all over the place, and while trying to get appointments to see GP's etc.

Are these the same Tories who think people having babies they can't afford is disgraceful? Does anybody realise that no method of contraception is 100%? Put together, none of it is very coherant.

It's all very well to say it's just his personal opinion (rather than on medical fact etc). But if they do bring it to a vote, and he gets a free vote, then his personal opinion has a chance of becoming law. I did not vote for him - why should his 'personal opinion' dictate what I can do with my life?

flow4 Sat 06-Oct-12 11:41:28

I'm thinking of getting t-shirts printed: "DON'T BE A C*NT, JEREMY HUNT" grin

babybythesea Sat 06-Oct-12 11:53:14

According to what people have been saying, hackmum, your friend's situation wouldn't have changed (abortion for medical reason). I want to make it clear, I'm with you all the way - I also know someone who terminated based on the fact that her child was likely to live to two years old, but only in hospital, while unergoing numerous operations. As I understand it, that remains unchanged.
Which actually begs the question, who does this affect? Why is this an issue? How many terminations are undertaken before 12 weeks, and for what reasons, compared to after 12 weeks, and for what reasons?
I don't think you can have a sensible debate without knowing this.
Plus, would there be grounds then for restricting what constitutes reasonable medical grounds? I don't know how well defined this is. Would his personal beliefs then make him need to air his opinion on that as well?

missymoomoomee Sat 06-Oct-12 11:58:12

I had my little girl 5 years ago, I knew in pregnancy there wasn't something quite right but was told I was paranoid as my son had died 9 years before.

When she was born she couldn't move, couldn't breathe, her bones were all broken from the birth and she was in constant pain. They did all the tests they could, invasive, painful procedures, and they couldn't find an actual reason. When she was 2 weeks old we had to switch her life support off.

They think what she had was a very rare genetic illness, as we found out 5 months later, when I was 2 months pregnant. As it was so rare they couldn't test for it and any diagnosis would have to be done through scans, we got the all clear for that pregnancy at 30 weeks. Up until that point I had to face the possibility of having a very late abortion.

Despite loving my daughter with every fibre of my being I sincerely wish I had known when I was pregnant with her so I could have had an abortion and saved her the agonising pain she went through every minute of her short life.

Anyone that tells me abortion is wrong after a however many weeks can honestly go and fuck themselves, its not like people will get to 22 or 24 weeks and think 'do you know what I can't be assed with this anymore' and have an abortion, its a hard, agonising choice, and when people get to that point in a pregnancy there is obviously a very desperate reason for their choice.

Before I lost my little girl I always said I would never have an abortion, I would never have judged anyone else from doing so, but its something I seriously thought I would never consider. Those of you who are making judgements and ill informed comments on here should maybe think on as one day you may well be in the position of having to make that choice.

MaBaya Sat 06-Oct-12 11:58:24

Jeremy new C U next Tuesday!

What a twat.

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