To punish my sons attention seeking SCREAMING?

[WhiteTrash]

ArraaahhhARGH!! I feel like screaming!

My 5 year old is a lovely child. BUT hes being a little bugger just recently. His baby brother is 8 months old, the adore one another. DS1 is absolutely lovely to his brother.

The last 3-4 weeks (since he broke up from school hes been back 1.5 weeks) hes started attention seeking fake crying. Its loud, its dry eyed, its often monotone, it can continue for 2 hours and can and cannot continue into a full blown tantrum.

It frightens the baby, I HAVE to tend to him when it happens as hes scared. DC1 will refuse to coverse during these times so I simply say "Youre frightening DC2, so I'll have to comfort him now. I'll talk to you when you stop crying."
Trying to talk to him about equals him 'crying' harder. These episodes occur over the smallest things, sometimes over nothing.

He gets a LOT of one on one attention. More so with his Dad (we've noticed the more alone time he has with his Dad the worse his behaviour is. We have no idea why but we plod along regardless.) I often ask him to do stuff with me, just us but nearly always says no he'd rather do it with his Dad. But he does spend time with me too.

DC2 is in my bed Dp on the sofa. Once a week or so DC1 will wake, plod down stairs and join his dad. His dad will try and persuade him to go back to bed, he refuses, DP relents. They sleep.

Only last night he started screaming. It was 1am. It lasted an hour, it woke the baby who was scared out his witts despite being upstaira behind a closed door with me. I was LIVID. Literally never been so cross. He KNOWS it effects his brother thus me which is why he did it.

Id NEVER dare do something like that as a child.
He lost all his lego for a week but doesnt seem to give a crap.

AIBU to be considering further punishment?! I know its a no-no to punish twice but this had got to stop! Reward charts have never worked with him. Although we have a marble jar for good behaviour. It does not work.

[WhiteTrash]

I need to add, he cried because his Dad told him to go upstairs. Not because of a nightmare. Im not that mean.

[CailinDana]

It sounds to me like there's something going on with him that he can't put into words and this is his way of dealing with it. Could you suggest to him that he goes to another room to do his screaming? When he's calm just say "DS I know you feel the need to scream sometimes but could you go to your room to do it?" and when it starts just lead him silently there and close the door. The fact that he doesn't respond to attention when he's doing it suggests it's not attention seeking.

[WhiteTrash]

Ive tried taking him into his room to finish his screaming. That usually follows into a genuine tantrum which is worse. Now, I leave the room with DC2 telling DC1 we'll return and talk about it when he stops.

His behaviour deteriorated last Christmas too. I think he finds it stressful. He often finds change stressful. But Christmas is over and the screaming isnt.

[Callisto]

Sounds to me like there is some underlying thing that he is worried about, especially if he doesn't show any other jealous behaviour towards his brother. Is there something at school worrying him? Low grade bullying maybe?

[mojitomania]

He KNOWS it effects his brother thus me which is why he did it

Exactly, bit of the green eyed monster here.

AIBU to be considering further punishment

Don't really know what your 1st punishment was?

Only thing you can really do is ignore, which is hard due to him setting baby off and don't go out of your way to any more for him as somewhere along the line he's realised that it's working, thus continues it.

You also tell him it upsets the baby, don't mention it.

[Callisto]

Ah, sorry missed that bit. Doesn't sound like it's been triggered by anything at school then.

[mojitomania]

to "do" any more for him

[TheSmallClanger]

I was all set to say YANBU, but there sounds as if there is something going on here that may need addressing.

You say something similar happened last Christmas: does your DH get time off over Christmas, and could your DS be sad he doesn't see his dad as much now? Also, are there stressful relative-based situations in or around your house over Christmas?

[MmeLindor.]

DS used to do this, not quite so sustained though.

I worked out it was a mix of attention seeking and frustration at not getting what he wanted.

The only think that worked for us was ignoring him. Be consistent. When he screams, walk away and do not engage.

When he is calm again, call him over for a cuddle and speak to him. "You were pretty angry earlier" often worked, and then wait for him to say what was wrong.

Punishing did not help and I think led to more tantrums.

[wahwahwah]

What does he tell you when you ask why he is crying?

Possibly jealousy over the baby. He is at school, so away from you a bit, and the baby isnt - and needs more attention when he is back from school too. Its not fair!

Maybe now is the time for the:
'you only cry if you are hurt or very sad/scared/upset. You are a super big brother and I need you to help me teach the baby how to be a big boy like you. He loves his big brother very much and its a big job, but because you are such a big school boy now, I am sure you can do this...'. Kids do love responsibility and the opportunity to teach smaller kids what to do!

I would try this rather than punishment - if it is because of jealousy, it will make the matter worse (I got into trouble because of the baby...).

[wannaBe]

as you've already punished for this incident I wouldn't punish twice but,

I would start to set some boundaries and introduce some consequences.

If he knows that screaming like that gets him attention i.e. winds you up (and presumably you become visibly wound up) then I just wouldn't give him the attention. so:

If he starts crying over something and you know that it is just a tantrum for attention I would say:

"You need to stop that now." if he doesn't then I would say "I am going oo count to three. if you have not stopped then you will go into time-out." Then count to three 1.... ... ... ... 2 ... ... ... ... 3. If he is still screaming then follow through. Don't say a word, just take him and put him in a safe room in the house, preferably a room with no toys in it, say to him, "we do not scream like that." then shut the door and leave him in there for five minutes.

Don't engage during this time, don't have a conversation, don't respond to his calls for you/daddy. It's hard but he needs to learn that screaming for attention will get him precisely the opposite.

And your dh needs to be on side with this, and when it comes to going downstairs in the night your dh needs to physically take him back to bed and it needs to be made clear that he must stay there. Do you have a stairgate? if so I would shut it at night so he can't just wander off downstairs, and if he screams at the top just put him back to bed.

In the meantime keep up the marble jar for good behavior (I had one of those too when ds was little), and be consistent. so essentially it's reward the good behavior, ignore the bad (ignore being time out/no attention)..

[WowOoo]

After ds2 was born ds1 behaved like this sometimes - just not so loudly. i found that giving him the attention he craved worked better than ignoring.
You might make him feel really pushed out if you carry on like this.

I really missed time with ds1 when ds2 was born. Could your dp/dh or some family or friend take dc2 for short time so that you can spend some time together like the old days?
I was so tired but found reading to ds1 was good. Ds2 used to be happy feeding or whatever and it seemed that ds1 was getting one on one attention.
Sorry if this is patronising or comletely off the mark. Both mine seemed to have undergone some kind of personality changes and had growth spurts since Christmas holidays....Perhaps i needed the holiday to notice it.
Congrats by the way!

[WhiteTrash]

Oh God I did the shutting him in his room last year (time out) he hammered at the door, threw his toys, destrpyed his room, broke things. I rent so cant afford him to damage someone else house which was happening. I cant believe his manage to miss the windows or they'd be broken.

Dp gets nearly no time off hes self employed. This year he had two days off.

I dont usually get visibly wound up I need to be calm for the baby. Last night however I was beyond wound up. I was positively steaming.

I consideres it being problems at school but actually his behaviour has improved a bit since going back.

Basically DS cannot handle future bigs. Christmas, holidays, birthdays, seeing a friend. If we say " Hey only one week until such and such is happening!" he literally cannpr cope with it and hus behaviour goes to pot. It does not help that his birthday is 10 days after christmas. We have decided now to not disclose 'big' happenings until 2 days before. When said Big Thing is actually happening hes good as gold. He cant handle the build up. Christmas and bday was so long and drawn out the behaviour seems to have spilled into the aftermath too.

[neolara]

So ignoring is not working, in which case you need to try something completely different. Personally, I would give him a big cuddle. And then I'd suggest to him that he might like to wrestle with you and then I'd roll around on the floor with him for 10 mins having lots of fun. I know this sounds bonkers, but I've just finished reading a great book, often recommended on here, called Playful Parenting. It talks about how children need to feel connected to adults and often misbehaving (e.g. screaming) is how they cope when they feel isolated. Because they are 5 they can't say things like "I'm feeling a bit put out that my little brother is taking up a lot of your time and I'm worried that you might not love me as much as him", so they just scream instead. The book says you need to find a way to reconnect, even if they initially push you away. Wrestling is recommended and also surprisingly fun!

[boohoobabywho]

my dd treid this one when she first started mixing with other children.

she would get herself upset and cry.
i would ignore it
she actually said to me ' mummy cant you see my eyes are leaking'
i said 'yes i can but there isnt any reason for it, you're not hurt or injured. is there something else wrong?'
off she went... she was about 18 months old at the time and we havent had any repercussions.

you are the mum, you can see he ok

[MmeLindor.]

No, don't shut him in his room. Just don't react to his screaming.

It is bloody hard but it did work with us.

[WhiteTrash]

I like all your ideas, especially the wrestling one. (although that would be a bad idea with his dad as DC1 goes hyper starts being completely out of hand- kicking in the face, throwing toys at you all while giggling his head off- he'd never do that with me, we dont know why??).


But its hard to impliment them at 1am. We reay did ignore him for the first 45 minutes, poor DC2 was upstairs wide eyed and frightened the whole time. But I lost it in the end (im not proud) and went downstairs and let rip (I know, I know AIBU Im a shit parent for doing it. Believe me Ive felt like shit all day). But it stopped it.

[CamberwickGreen]

DC2 is in my bed Dp on the sofa

why?

[WhiteTrash]

A lot of reasons. DC1 and I have bad nights. Ill health with him he wakes a LOT, we bf co-sleep and between us disci dance in our sleep. It works ok for us, we have an understanding but DP would never sleep well. He works with heavy machinery he HAS to have good sleep ir Id worry all day that he'd chop a foot off.

Plus, when DC1 wakes he does have the option of joining DP on our large sofa. We'd never all fit in the bed and night time screaming would be a regular thing.

tries to hide protruding rod with a muslin

[MmeLindor.]

Doesn't make you a bad parent to have shouted at him after 45 mins of screaming at 1am. Makes you human.

[lisaro]

It sounds like his dad needs to put boundaries in place - if he's told to go back to bed, then he does. If he goes too far with play fighting, then it stops!

[Fleurdebleurgh]

Definately not a bad parent for a 1am freak out.

I know all the sleep dramas youve had with DC2 and i dont think anyone would blame you for trying to maximise the sleeptime he does get ,100%.

Re the crying/screaming i have no idea, i would stringently ignore ignore ignore but i realise that is easier said than done, especially if he is causing damage.

You can have some hugs from me though (if you dont tell anyone).

[WhiteTrash]

Thanks fleur. Do I know you outside MN? Or is it my constant tedious "nights are woe!" threads? Ha!

Lisa, believe me we'd LOVE to set and stick to nighttime boundaries. But DC1 would scream, because he knows that would upset his brother and get what he wants (at night only though!). We know it. He knows it.

We cant 'see it through' either. The boy is relentless he did this when I was pregnant it went on for 2-3 months every night for hours. We were on our knees literally and metaphorically.

I cant have DC2 go through DC1's tantrums like that even if it is only once or twice a week it continues for up to two hours.

[WhiteTrash]

Ive been drip feeding a bit, appologies for that.

But taking everything into consideration AIBU for punishing him for this?

[MmeLindor.]

I would say, yes, it would be U to punish him for this. Or rather, it would likely be self-defeating.

I know when DS was in the "zone" I woudl tell him to stop and he would say that he could not.

I wonder if it would be good to work with him on expressing his feelings. Doing some games on feelings, and talking about it.